On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 10:59 AM, hasufell <hasuf...@gentoo.org> wrote: > Despite that... the answer is already here: > http://devmanual.gentoo.org/general-concepts/filesystem/index.html > >> Gentoo does not consider the Filesystem Hierarchy Standard to be an >> authoritative standard, although much of our policy coincides with >> it. > > So this is not really something the council has to decide on, unless > you propose to change that policy altogether.
As far as what the new policy should be goes, a lot has developed in the linux world post-FHS. The biggest one is the whole /usr-move direction that many distros seem to generally be moving in. Vertical integration complements this (making booting without /usr a challenge). Initramfs has also come along and has basically turned into a userspace bootloader of sorts. The whole config-files-in-/usr thing is also driven by this, and also by the desire of distros to avoid something like etc-update. We do the same thing with make.defaults, which doesn't go in etc (though to be fair it is linked from there, sort-of). The general direction of projects like systemd, the /usr-move, config files in /usr, and so on fix real problems on most distros. I think one of the challenges for Gentoo is that many of these problems are ones that Gentoo has already fixed, somewhat. So, for us it isn't about moving from a gaping hole into a workable solution, but moving from one solution we're already accustomed to into another new solution that might or might not be somewhat better, and which likely involves some tradeoffs. For anybody using a non-dependency-aware service manager systemd is a huge improvement, for an openrc user the benefits really aren't that dramatic, though I suspect for laptop users it could be a step up once it matures. Gentoo is also not release-oriented, so the /usr-move doesn't really carry the same benefits. If you are release-oriented and have completed the /usr-move then upgrading your distro might be equivalent to symlinking /usr to a zero-seek-time CD drive, and swapping out the disc, kernel, and initramfs. I think the real issue for Gentoo is the cost of doing things differently. Right now we're just looking at that in terms of how hard it is to stick a doins in an ebuild, but that is just the starting point. Once you start getting vertical integration then you run into a myriad of things being done differently vs upstream, and that can snowball. You have to ask what we're getting for all of that. Is the world a better place if Gentoo sticks config defaults in /etc/default vs wherever upstream puts them? Is there value in having those defaults clogging your /etc scm or whatever you're using to manage config, when it is already managed by your package manager? I'm all for an evolution of FHS that helps address some of these questions, but that really isn't something we can do at the distro level. It would take working WITH all of those newfangled projects that are doing things that annoy us, finding ways to standardize across distros while still giving the binary distros what they need. A distro like Ubuntu isn't going to buy into the concept that etc-update makes their problems moot. I think Gentoo needs to stick to being different where being different really adds value. That means rolling releases, flexibility around dependency versioning, control over build-time options, flexibility around system components whenever practical, and so on. We can't really afford to fight WW3 over where some config file gets installed, or what its filename is. We can't afford to build a Gnome3 that works without systemd (at least, not for long), and so on. What we can do is support any forks/clones/etc that have a sustainable community around them (such as eudev, openrc, etc). Finally, this is a volunteer distro - contributions get you a lot further than criticism. So, publish all the forks/overlays/alternates/etc you want, and by all means solicit support for them. Once upon a time few ebuilds had systemd units, looking at the tracker now that is mostly limited to packages that I've never heard of. All it takes for an option to remain viable is a few people who care enough to steadily contribute. Rich
