On Tue, 25 Feb 2014 17:28:41 +0200 Samuli Suominen <ssuomi...@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > On 20/02/14 18:27, Tom Wijsman wrote: > > On Thu, 20 Feb 2014 11:26:18 +0200 > > Samuli Suominen <ssuomi...@gentoo.org> wrote: > > > >> On 20/02/14 10:47, Steev Klimaszewski wrote: > >>> On Thu, 2014-02-20 at 10:40 +0200, Samuli Suominen wrote: > >>>> On 20/02/14 09:44, Steev Klimaszewski wrote: > >>>>> On Thu, 2014-02-20 at 07:55 +0200, Samuli Suominen wrote: > >>>>>> On 20/02/14 00:23, Ulrich Mueller wrote: > >>>>>>> Following up to today's QA meeting: The gtk3 USE flag is used > >>>>>>> by 27 packages, so I suggest making it a global flag: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> gtk3 - Add support for x11-libs/gtk+ (The GIMP Toolkit) > >>>>>>> version 3 > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Ulrich > >>>>>> that would suggest it's fine to use, and is anything but > >>>>>> temporary > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -1 from here > >>>>>> > >>>>> MATE desktop (which I hope to bring in to Portage soon) can be > >>>>> built against gtk+ 2 or gtk+ 3, and upstream supports doing > >>>>> both, so +1 from me. Just because gtk+ 3 is the latest, does > >>>>> not mean it's the greatest, and I really wish people would > >>>>> realize that newest != bestest. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> Then you pick whatever is best supported for MATE, and ship it > >>>> using that. Later when they have completed their support for > >>>> GTK+-3, and it's the best supported, you ship that. It's not > >>>> rocket science. > >>>> > >>> OR, since I'm the maintainer, I decide that I'm willing to deal > >>> with both, instead of you telling me that I need to pick one or > >>> the other. Upstream says both are supported and viable, and I'm > >>> willing to deal with the headaches. Just because you're > >>> unwilling doesn't mean others aren't. kthx. > >>> > >>> > >> Bye bye distribution level consistency :-( > >> > >> It's sad that few stubborn developers can do that. > >> > >> - Samuli > >> > > "'Ey! Have you heard about it. Gentoo doesn't provide X with support > > for Y, then what are their USE flags even for; what a shame, ..." > > > > If people want to support and use multiple things, let them do so. > > It is pretty much what Gentoo and its philosophy are about; which > > somewhat can be summarized as providing choices such that we fit > > the users' need, and not force our one true way upon them... > > > > Greetings from someone who runs GNOME 3 and MATE simultaneously; > > you can intentionally break it, but why would you? It takes away > > our happiness. On the other hand, there's the part where you want > > to break it for a reason, perhaps for your happiness; but then I'd > > like to hear why. > > > > So, no more setting USE="gtk" and assuming the best packaged software > will be get installed, be it with what version of the toolkit, 1, 2 > or 3 What is "best"? What you would deem best, could be worst for the user. > Instead, now you have to selectively do the maintainers job for > figuring out which one is the best supported one The maintainer can use IUSE flag defaults for this; but, there are users that want to control which toolkit is installed. Going further, they want to decide which toolkit the software is built with. > Despite already picking up a modern theme with both GTK+ 2.x and GTK+ > 3.x looks, now you might end up with half-crippled software just > because some stubborn people choose the looks, not the functionality, > to be their motivation You need to mask that as a packager. > Such people really don't deserve to own a packager status if they > can't take the time to determine / examine the package's best > supported graphical toolkit What is "best"? If upstream provides both and claims they both are well supported, I consider both are. > If multiple ones with similar feature set is supported, then the > latest toolkit is preferred What is "preferred"? What you prefer can be different than the user. > But seems like I'm repeating common sense which the GNOME guideline > layed out long ago The GNOME guideline fits just the GNOME team and developers whom follow that; however, in the bigger picture, there are maintainers that do not follow that and do something different. Looking at the tracker [1]; it appears that it is more common for such a bug to be marked as INVALID or WONTFIX, than it is to be marked as FIXED. As a result of this, the users get an inconsistent USE flag presented. The "common sense" is just another wording of "opinion" here; if it wants to be real "common sense" shared amongst almost everyone, it'll need a bit more than a guideline. [1]: https://bugs.gentoo.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=ALL%20blocked%3A420493 -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
