I agree with Christofer Dutz. I expressed my concerns about the diversity of the community, mainly because the community highly dependent on single contributor(Antoine Toulme),
I did not directly vote -1 because I think it's better for Tuweni could continue to build community in Incubator and continue to vote when grows diverse community. If it is necessary to vote now, I give my vote -1(binding). I still think it is a good way to build diverse community in the Incubator, because mentors and other IPMC members can give more guidences and help. Christofer Dutz <christofer.d...@c-ware.de> 于2022年12月21日周三 16:55写道： > Hi all, > > I still think just because a resolution is added that it doesn’t mean the > board will accept it. > > Having barely 3 +1 votes also seems an indicator that the rest of the IPMC > doesn’t clearly believe Tuweni is ready for graduation. > The incubator is for projects to learn how to do things the Apache way and > to grow its community into a sustainable project. > I see that the first part seems to be done, but the second part is > completely missing. > > I also don’t agree that being in the incubator will keep anyone from > contributing, I even think that most people know that incubating projects > are usually the ones easiest to get involved in. > So I would like to bring the counter-argument to the table, that growing > the community might become harder, once Tuweni is a TLP. > > The problem I see is perfectly reflected by this: > https://github.com/apache/incubator-tuweni/graphs/contributors > > Has anyone besides you – Antoine – ever done a release? > Also did I have a look at your last release thread: > There you had exactly 3 +1 votes, however one of them was from “Danno > Ferrin” who seems to “only” be a Committer. > A PPMC +1 vote would have been required here, so technically this release > wasn’t ok. > > I think this project should focus on building the community, having others > be the Release Manager for one or two releases and then to aim for > graduation. > > Maybe I should make my opinion a bit more explicit by officially voting -1 > > So here goes: > > -1 binding > > Chris > > > From: Antoine Toulme <anto...@toulme.name> > Date: Wednesday, 21. December 2022 at 07:02 > To: general <general@incubator.apache.org> > Subject: [RESULT][VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation > Folks, > > Thank you for your participation in the Apache Tuweni graduation vote. > > The results are as follows: > +1: 3 Antoine Toulme (binding), Larry Mccay (binding), Dave Fisher > (binding) > +0: 0 > -1: 0 > > Thanks all! We will proceed to the next step of voting for a PMC chair and > drafting a resolution for the board. > > Cheers, > > Antoine > > > On Dec 20, 2022, at 8:45 AM, Antoine Toulme <anto...@toulme.name> wrote: > > > > I’ve let the vote go on for a bit. I’d like to make sure we get a chance > for final votes and comments and I will close it by tonight PT time. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Antoine > > > >> On Dec 19, 2022, at 6:45 AM, Josh Fischer <j...@joshfischer.io> wrote: > >> > >> To build on what Dave is saying (from my experience at least) is > projects > >> will enter the incubator and they tend to focus on building new > features on > >> top of new features. Instead of focusing on how they can transfer that > deep > >> knowledge of the system to anyone who is willing to learn. > >> > >> Getting those people to feel comfortable stepping up can be a challenge. > >> Making new comers (whoever they are) feel welcome to ask questions and > >> contribute on mailing list discussion, prs, code contributions, etc is > the > >> most important part of building a self-sustaining community. > >> > >> > >> I’ll get off my soapbox now. > >> > >> - Josh > >> > >> > >> > >> On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 2:40 AM Christofer Dutz < > christofer.d...@c-ware.de> > >> wrote: > >> > >>> Sorry for asking, > >>> > >>> but Dave, could you please explain that reply … admittedly I didn’t > >>> understand what you wanted to say > >>> (Guess I would consider it advanced English and I simply didn’t > understand > >>> it). > >>> > >>> Chris > >>> > >>> From: Dave Fisher <wave4d...@comcast.net> > >>> Date: Monday, 12. December 2022 at 06:19 > >>> To: general@incubator.apache.org <general@incubator.apache.org> > >>> Subject: Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation > >>> Thanks. I think you are onto an idea of community that could be somehow > >>> explicitly part of the incubator’s curriculum. That’s a separate > discussion. > >>> > >>> Best, > >>> Dave > >>> > >>> Sent from my iPhone > >>> > >>>> On Dec 11, 2022, at 7:17 PM, Willem Jiang <willem.ji...@gmail.com> > >>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> I agree we don't need to hold the Tuweni graduation for the release > >>> checking. > >>>> But if we want to build a sustainable Open Source project, we still > >>>> need to pay lots of attention to community building. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Willem Jiang > >>>> > >>>> Twitter: willemjiang > >>>> Weibo: 姜宁willem > >>>> > >>>>> On Sun, Dec 11, 2022 at 9:24 AM Antoine Toulme <anto...@toulme.name> > >>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> Hello folks, > >>>>> > >>>>> Apache Tuweni had a much smaller community when it started its > >>> incubation at Apache. The path of this project has been impacted by the > >>> domain it applies to and the pandemic certainly hasn't helped. Still > it has > >>> managed to create enough momentum to make regular releases and check > off > >>> all incubation checks. > >>>>> Community building is definitely still on the menu - right now and > >>> later as well. We will continue building and including folks. We have > >>> onboarded successfully multiple committers and have received > contributions. > >>> I expect this trend to continue and mature. > >>>>> > >>>>> The question is whether the best place for us to continue growing is > >>> the incubator. The incubator adds additional checks on our releases and > >>> slows down our cycles, which has historically driven folks to fork and > move > >>> away from the project. > >>>>> > >>>>> The incubator doesn't offer opportunities for community building, > from > >>> what I know. We will need to continue to build our image and presence > to > >>> attract contributors on our own. > >>>>> > >>>>> The project mentors have been nothing short of fantastic. They have > >>> been helpful in maturing the project. In my opinion, we are using their > >>> precious time when they should be engaged in helping other projects of > the > >>> incubator. > >>>>> > >>>>> With this, I want to thank the incubator. We had a great experience > >>> building with you all. I personally believe we should free the > incubator's > >>> time and attention to concentrate on other projects. I also believe the > >>> project is mature enough to function outside of the incubator. > >>>>> > >>>>> I vote +1 to graduate Tuweni from the incubator. > >>>>> > >>>>> Thanks, > >>>>> > >>>>> Antoine > >>>>> > >>>>>>> On Dec 7, 2022, at 3:37 PM, larry mccay <lmc...@apache.org> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> We have also recently seen long term incubating projects with > >>> considerable > >>>>>> adoption falter. > >>>>>> I consider the fact that they did not graduate early enough a > >>> contributing > >>>>>> factor here. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Nothing wrong with incubation but staying in the incubator and > >>> encountering > >>>>>> attrition is different from TLP > >>>>>> with some churn with new folks coming into an official TLP project > >>> while > >>>>>> others can fall off in a healthy way. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Again, having the community test and release 14 separate releases > >>>>>> demonstrates contributors in the community > >>>>>> even if they aren't all materially contributing code. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Wed, Dec 7, 2022 at 3:45 AM Christofer Dutz < > >>> christofer.d...@c-ware.de> > >>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> Hi all, > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> And in the last few months the ASF has sadly seen enough cases, in > >>> which > >>>>>>> even big projects suffered from the lack of diversity. > >>>>>>> So, I would also consider this to be a blocker. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Community building isn’t something that happens or comes for free. > >>>>>>> It’s actually hard work, but it needs to be done. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Just my opinion on this topic. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Chris > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> From: Willem Jiang <willem.ji...@gmail.com> > >>>>>>> Date: Wednesday, 7. December 2022 at 02:59 > >>>>>>> To: general@incubator.apache.org <general@incubator.apache.org> > >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation > >>>>>>> It looks like we need a dedicated community leader[1] to build a > >>>>>>> diverse community (just borrow a pattern from InnerSource > Common[2]). > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> " Communication takes up a significant percentage of a community > >>>>>>> leader's daily work. At the same time, he or she will likely also > have > >>>>>>> to spearhead the initial development, too. In the face of limited > >>>>>>> capacity, inexperienced leaders will tend to focus on development > and > >>>>>>> neglect communication. The barrier for potential contributors to > make > >>>>>>> their first contribution and to commit to the community will be > much > >>>>>>> higher if the community leader is hard to reach or is slow to > respond > >>>>>>> to feedback and questions for lack of time." > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> [1] > >>>>>>> > >>> > https://github.com/InnerSourceCommons/InnerSourcePatterns/blob/main/patterns/2-structured/dedicated-community-leader.md#forces > >>>>>>> [2]https://innersourcecommons.org/ > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Willem Jiang > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Twitter: willemjiang > >>>>>>> Weibo: 姜宁willem > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Tue, Dec 6, 2022 at 9:51 AM larry mccay <lmc...@apache.org> > wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> I'm not so sure that I see this as a blocker for graduation. > >>>>>>>> There was enough consensus and testing to spin and publish 14 > >>> releases. > >>>>>>>> There has been healthy conversation about this very topic among > the > >>>>>>> mentors > >>>>>>>> and contributors on the private list. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> The nature of this project is that the consumption of these > >>> libraries are > >>>>>>>> going to get less traction while in incubation and a community may > >>> grow > >>>>>>>> larger as a TLP as confidence is instilled by that status. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> The Tuweni community has demonstrated the ability to publish > releases > >>>>>>>> within that Apache Way and guidelines, has welcomed new > contributors, > >>>>>>> etc. > >>>>>>>> The long term success will require a larger active community but I > >>> don't > >>>>>>>> think that needs to block graduation as the incubation goals have > >>> been > >>>>>>> met. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> My 2 cents. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On Mon, Dec 5, 2022 at 7:41 PM Willem Jiang < > willem.ji...@gmail.com> > >>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> I agree with Gang Li. The Bus factor[1] of this project is > >>> relatively > >>>>>>> high. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_factor > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Willem Jiang > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Twitter: willemjiang > >>>>>>>>> Weibo: 姜宁willem > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> On Mon, Dec 5, 2022 at 11:06 PM li gang <lgcar...@apache.org> > >>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> I checked the contributions of the Tuweni project[1],the > traffic of > >>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>> mail list d...@tuweni.apache.org[2] and the KEYS[3]. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> It looks like the project is mainly maintained by Antoine Toulme > >>>>>>> self, > >>>>>>>>>> I have a concern this is not comply with the diversity. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> [1] > https://github.com/apache/incubator-tuweni/graphs/contributors > >>>>>>>>>> [2]https://lists.apache.org/list?d...@tuweni.apache.org > >>>>>>>>>> [3]https://downloads.apache.org/incubator/tuweni/KEYS > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Antoine Toulme <toulm...@apache.org> 于2022年12月5日周一 15:14写道： > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Dear Apache Incubator Community and IPMC members, > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> We discussed the graduation for Tuweni in the Apache Incubator > >>>>>>>>>>> Community [4], where no issues were raised and positive replies > >>>>>>> were > >>>>>>>>>>> received. > >>>>>>>>>>> After having the graduation discussion in the Tuweni community > >>>>>>> [1], we > >>>>>>>>>>> have passed the vote within Tuweni community [2] and the vote > >>>>>>> result > >>>>>>>>>>> was published [3]. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> I would like to start this voting thread to request graduating > >>>>>>> Apache > >>>>>>>>>>> Tuweni(incubating) from Apache Incubator as a Top Level > Project. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Please provide your vote accordingly: > >>>>>>>>>>> [ ] +1 Yes, I support Tuweni project to graduate from the > Apache > >>>>>>>>> Incubator. > >>>>>>>>>>> [ ] +0 No opinion. > >>>>>>>>>>> [ ] -1 No, the Tuweni project is not ready to graduate, > because... > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for participating in the vote. This vote will stay > open > >>>>>>> for > >>>>>>>>> at > >>>>>>>>>>> least 72 hours. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Here is an overview of the Apache Tuweni(incubating) to help > with > >>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>> vote. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> *Community* > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> ● The PPMC is active, with PMC members voting for graduation > along > >>>>>>> with > >>>>>>>>>>> mentors. > >>>>>>>>>>> ● 6 new committers were added, bringing the total number of > >>>>>>> committers > >>>>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>>>>> 14 from 12 different > >>>>>>>>>>> organizations. > >>>>>>>>>>> ● The number of contributors is now 25 and growing. > >>>>>>>>>>> ● The dev@Tuweni mailing list currently has 33 subscribers > [4]. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> *Project* > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> ● Apache Tuweni (incubating) is a set of libraries and other > tools > >>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>>> aid > >>>>>>>>>>> development of blockchain and other decentralized software in > >>>>>>> Java and > >>>>>>>>>>> other JVM languages. It includes a low-level bytes library, > >>>>>>>>> serialization > >>>>>>>>>>> and deserialization codecs (e.g. RLP), various cryptography > >>>>>>> functions > >>>>>>>>> and > >>>>>>>>>>> primitives, and lots of other helpful utilities. Tuweni is > >>>>>>> developed > >>>>>>>>> for > >>>>>>>>>>> JDK 11 or higher. > >>>>>>>>>>> ● Project maturity model and incubation status is detailed in > [5] > >>>>>>>>>>> ● Tuweni has been incubating [5] since 2019-02-25 for over 45 > >>>>>>>>>>> months. > >>>>>>>>>>> ● Tuweni community released a total of 14 Apache releases [6]. > >>>>>>>>>>> ● 331 pull requests created closed [7]. > >>>>>>>>>>> ● 76 issues created, and 46 issues closed [8]. > >>>>>>>>>>> ● The release cadence is about 3 months. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> *Brand, License, and Copyright* > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> ● We submitted an application for the brand [9] and it has been > >>>>>>>>>>> reviewed and approved. > >>>>>>>>>>> ● Tuweni community maintains project code on GitHub and all > >>> modules > >>>>>>>>>>> code is under Apache 2.0 license. We have reviewed all the > >>>>>>>>>>> dependencies and ensured they do not bring any license issues > >>> [10]. > >>>>>>>>>>> All the status files, license headers, and copyright are up to > >>>>>>> date. > >>>>>>>>>>> ● Tuweni official website [11] is compliant with Apache > Foundation > >>>>>>>>>>> requirements [12]. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> [1] > >>>>>>> https://lists.apache.org/thread/z3flpmqcss21xc8vmtwqqfs961p4g9t5 > >>>>>>>>>>> [2] > >>>>>>> https://lists.apache.org/thread/c04cmvfwh1wt2mxmc9zo89o6bnhm2xqk > >>>>>>>>>>> [3] > >>>>>>> https://lists.apache.org/thread/8m4lq3k1v93m1k482syj7kn1ldb62665 > >>>>>>>>>>> [4] https://lists.apache.org/list.html?d...@tuweni.apache.org > >>>>>>>>>>> [5] https://incubator.apache.org/projects/tuweni.html > >>>>>>>>>>> [6] https://github.com/apache/incubator-tuweni/releases > >>>>>>>>>>> [7] https://github.com/apache/incubator-tuweni/pulls > >>>>>>>>>>> [8] https://github.com/apache/incubator-tuweni/issues > >>>>>>>>>>> [9] > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/PODLINGNAMESEARCH-167 > >>>>>>>>>>> [10] > https://github.com/apache/incubator-tuweni/blob/main/LICENSE > >>>>>>>>>>> [11] https://tuweni.apache.org > >>>>>>>>>>> [12] https://whimsy.apache.org/pods/project/tuweni > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: > general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > >>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: > >>> general-h...@incubator.apache.org > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------ > >>>>>>>>>> Best Regards > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> DolphinScheduler PMC > >>>>>>>>>> Gang Li 李岗 > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> lgcar...@apache.org > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > >>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: > general-h...@incubator.apache.org > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > >>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > >>>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > >>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > >>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > >>> > >> -- > >> Sent from A Mobile Device > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > -- ------------------------------ Best Regards DolphinScheduler PMC Gang Li 李岗 lgcar...@apache.org
