On 1 December 2017 at 13:52, John D. Ament <johndam...@apache.org> wrote: > On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 7:54 AM Greg Stein <gst...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 3:51 AM, sebb <seb...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> > On 29 November 2017 at 13:44, John D. Ament <johndam...@apache.org> >> wrote: >> > > On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 5:59 AM sebb <seb...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > > >> > >> Top posting >> > >> >> > >> The proposal includes a user@ mailing list. >> > >> This is generally not recommended for podlings as their focus needs to >> > >> be on building the developer community. >> > >> >> > > >> > > Podlings are more than welcomed to include user@ lists. >> > >> >> They might be "welcome" to have such a list. But as sebb quotes my >> explanation from years back: it is a Bad Idea. >> >> Community growth is almost directly proportional to activity. You cannot >> attract people to "crickets" mailing lists. And dividing/partitioning your >> (potential) community is the fastest way to crickets. >> >> The Incubator is about teaching people how to build a functional Apache >> community. Keeping users/devs on the same list is one of the easiest and >> most straight-forward lessons to teach. >> > > I agree with most of your sentiments. They make sense when the podling is > new; representing either a project that has a lower user base, newly open > sourced, or even newly conceived. A lot of the recent podlings we've > accepted have been established, but looking to move under a foundation. In > these cases, they have a larger user base, who may have questions and need > a place to focus those questions on, which are outside of the development > cycles. > > At the same time, if we're saying we want to limit the creation of user@ > lists, if a podling is already established and using forums, discourse, > slack, google groups, etc, do we recommend to keep those open for user type > questions, until they feel they are ready to move to Apache fully? >
That seems to me to be the sensible approach. There's no need to move user mailing lists until the podling actually graduates. Also, if the podling fails to graduate, the user ASF list would be closed, whereas the original forums etc could continue as before. >> >> -g >> >> >> > >> > That is not my recollection. >> > >> > See for example: >> > >> > http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201009.mbox/% >> > 3CAANLkTim7NzJ%2BBLY8AtkR5ZmDUXHR%2BNZxr44VSqGJ_O3D%40mail.gmail.com%3E >> > >> > > There's nothing stopping them from building developers and users at the >> > same time. >> > >> > That's extra work. >> > >> > If there is already an external users list, let that continue until >> > the project is ready to graduate, then migrate users across. >> > >> > But it seems wrong to create a new user list initially. >> > >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org >> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org >> > >> > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
