Yup, done -- what will you be working on in Apache NetBeans? Based on the books and documentation you've written, I imagine something along those lines, while you're also a Java EE expert, so I could see you contributing in different ways there too, as well as being a JCP expert group member. A big win for the project, thank you.
Gj On Mon, Sep 26, 2016 at 8:08 PM, Michael Müller < michael.muel...@mueller-bruehl.de> wrote: > Hi GJ, > > > due to technical problems I missed one day of the discussion. I'm going to > catch up. > > If possible, please add to to the initial commiters. > > > Herzliche Grüße - Best Regards, > > Michael Müller > Brühl, Germany > blog.mueller-bruehl.de <http://blog.mueller-bruehl.de/> > it-rezension.de <http://it-rezension.de/> > @muellermi > > > Read my books > "Web Development with Java and JSF": https://leanpub.com/jsf > "Java Lambdas und (parallel) Streams" Deutsche Ausgabe: > https://leanpub.com/lambdas-de > "Java Lambdas and (parallel) Streams" English edition: > https://leanpub.com/lambdas > > On 09/23/2016 03:30 PM, Geertjan Wielenga wrote: > >> OK. Before the vote, will work on making the initial contributors list as >> complete as possible. >> >> What is the process for doing that? Do I simply make changes directly in >> the proposal? Do I make the changes public here before adding them to the >> proposal? Do I work directly with the mentors via e-mails to discuss and >> then after than make the changes? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Geertjan >> >> On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 10:02 AM, John D. Ament <johndam...@apache.org> >> wrote: >> >> Hi Bertrand, >>> >>> Responses in line. >>> >>> On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 11:54 PM Bertrand Delacretaz < >>> bdelacre...@apache.org> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Geertjan, >>>> >>>> I won't have time to look at your whole message now, just a few >>>> clarifications as far as committers/PMC is concerned. >>>> >>>> On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 7:50 AM, Geertjan Wielenga < >>>> geertjan.wiele...@googlemail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> ...Anyone on the list >>>>> will, once the proposal has been voted on and accepted, automatically >>>>> >>>> be >>> >>>> contributors to the Apache NetBeans project... >>>>> >>>> They will be commiters to be precise. >>>> >>>> Agreed, the way I interpretted Geertjan is that Netbeans contributor == >>> ASF >>> committer. They don't have the role of PMC/PPMC presently, so we'll see >>> how that evolves. >>> >>> >>> Anyone not on the list will >>>>> need to be voted in by the initial contributors, which is a process >>>>> >>>> that >>> >>>> could be fast, but is still a process and can be avoided by inclusion >>>>> >>>> in >>> >>>> the initial contributors list... >>>>> >>>> It's a simple process, the incubating project could very well have one >>>> >>> vote >>> >>>> for N people if that makes sense and they are all wanted. >>>> >>>> Its simple but hard. And no, I don't think we want bulk votes. What if >>> someone is +1 add Mark S and -1 add Bertrand D? At least when its come >>> up >>> to the IPMC previously, we've recommended against it. >>> >>> >>> Everyone on the initial contributors list is >>>>> automatically part of the PMC. >>>>> >>>> There's no PMC for an incubating project, just a PPMC as per >>>> http://incubator.apache.org/guides/ppmc.html >>>> >>>> That group has no formal power, only the Incubator PMC can vote on the >>>> podling's releases or make other decisions which are binding at the >>>> foundation level. >>>> >>>> In practice, you are correct that the PPMC is a PMC in training, but >>>> >>> really >>> >>>> in a podling being a PPMC member doesn't make a difference IMO. >>>> >>>> It does. PPMC has one important job - vote on adding more people. We >>> hope >>> that they will learn to look at their releases very carefully while under >>> incubation. >>> >>> >>> ...Anyone on the list when the project leaves >>>>> incubation gets write access to the project for the rest of their >>>>> >>>> life... >>> >>>> That's correct, but there can be a difference between the committers and >>>> PMC members once the project graduates. As a mentor, when graduating I >>>> would not accept a PMC member who has not contributed during incubation >>>> >>> for >>> >>>> example, whereas a committer that hasn't really been active during >>>> incubation is harmless. >>>> >>>> Committers don't have formal power once the project graduates, and if >>>> >>> they >>> >>>> don't behave their commits rights can easily be suspended, temporarily >>>> or >>>> permanently. That very rarely happens, just mentioning it to clarify the >>>> risks. >>>> >>>> That's... odd to say the least. I'm not aware of any specific cases, >>> doesn't mean it hasn't' happened, but I can't think of any cases where it >>> has (other than one special case recently of someone being asked out of >>> the >>> organization...) >>> >>> >>> In summary, what you don't want in an Apache project is poisonous PMC >>>> members, so in my view to be on the PMC once graduating people will have >>>> >>> to >>> >>>> demonstrate during incubation that they are making positive >>>> contributions >>>> to it - just being on the initial list of committers doesn't count >>>> >>> towards >>> >>>> that, in my book. >>>> >>>> ...If the above is accurate, we do need to work on the initial >>>>> >>>> contributors >>>> >>>>> list prior to voting on the proposal, quite aside from the infra >>>>> >>>> assessment... >>>> >>>> I still don't think that's required and should be avoided if it delays >>>> >>> the >>> >>>> vote for NetBeans acceptance, as the list of committers can be modified >>>> during incubation with just a bit of additional work. >>>> >>>> I don't think this will add a lot of work. I even gave him the idea of >>> just generating a script of past committers based on commit history. >>> >>> >>> If you still want do expand the list during incubation, best is to come >>>> >>> up >>> >>>> with a list of additional names that the existing NetBeans community >>>> >>> feels >>> >>>> deserve to be on that list (maybe based on votes on the existing >>>> NetBeans >>>> community's channels), and have the NetBeans mentors accept that new >>>> >>> list. >>> Agreed 100%. If someone hasn't added anything in a while, has no >>> interest >>> in developing more, and the community doesn't see much benefit, they >>> shouldn't be on the list. However, if that person does start >>> contributing, >>> please pay close attention to see if they're interested in coming back. >>> >>> >>> -Bertrand >>>> >>>> >
