Hi Bertrand,
Responses in line.
On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 11:54 PM Bertrand Delacretaz <
bdelacre...@apache.org>
wrote:
Hi Geertjan,
I won't have time to look at your whole message now, just a few
clarifications as far as committers/PMC is concerned.
On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 7:50 AM, Geertjan Wielenga <
geertjan.wiele...@googlemail.com> wrote:
...Anyone on the list
will, once the proposal has been voted on and accepted, automatically
be
contributors to the Apache NetBeans project...
They will be commiters to be precise.
Agreed, the way I interpretted Geertjan is that Netbeans contributor == ASF
committer. They don't have the role of PMC/PPMC presently, so we'll see
how that evolves.
Anyone not on the list will
need to be voted in by the initial contributors, which is a process
that
could be fast, but is still a process and can be avoided by inclusion
in
the initial contributors list...
It's a simple process, the incubating project could very well have one
vote
for N people if that makes sense and they are all wanted.
Its simple but hard. And no, I don't think we want bulk votes. What if
someone is +1 add Mark S and -1 add Bertrand D? At least when its come up
to the IPMC previously, we've recommended against it.
Everyone on the initial contributors list is
automatically part of the PMC.
There's no PMC for an incubating project, just a PPMC as per
http://incubator.apache.org/guides/ppmc.html
That group has no formal power, only the Incubator PMC can vote on the
podling's releases or make other decisions which are binding at the
foundation level.
In practice, you are correct that the PPMC is a PMC in training, but
really
in a podling being a PPMC member doesn't make a difference IMO.
It does. PPMC has one important job - vote on adding more people. We hope
that they will learn to look at their releases very carefully while under
incubation.
...Anyone on the list when the project leaves
incubation gets write access to the project for the rest of their
life...
That's correct, but there can be a difference between the committers and
PMC members once the project graduates. As a mentor, when graduating I
would not accept a PMC member who has not contributed during incubation
for
example, whereas a committer that hasn't really been active during
incubation is harmless.
Committers don't have formal power once the project graduates, and if
they
don't behave their commits rights can easily be suspended, temporarily or
permanently. That very rarely happens, just mentioning it to clarify the
risks.
That's... odd to say the least. I'm not aware of any specific cases,
doesn't mean it hasn't' happened, but I can't think of any cases where it
has (other than one special case recently of someone being asked out of the
organization...)
In summary, what you don't want in an Apache project is poisonous PMC
members, so in my view to be on the PMC once graduating people will have
to
demonstrate during incubation that they are making positive contributions
to it - just being on the initial list of committers doesn't count
towards
that, in my book.
...If the above is accurate, we do need to work on the initial
contributors
list prior to voting on the proposal, quite aside from the infra
assessment...
I still don't think that's required and should be avoided if it delays
the
vote for NetBeans acceptance, as the list of committers can be modified
during incubation with just a bit of additional work.
I don't think this will add a lot of work. I even gave him the idea of
just generating a script of past committers based on commit history.
If you still want do expand the list during incubation, best is to come
up
with a list of additional names that the existing NetBeans community
feels
deserve to be on that list (maybe based on votes on the existing NetBeans
community's channels), and have the NetBeans mentors accept that new
list.
Agreed 100%. If someone hasn't added anything in a while, has no interest
in developing more, and the community doesn't see much benefit, they
shouldn't be on the list. However, if that person does start contributing,
please pay close attention to see if they're interested in coming back.
-Bertrand
