Hi Chris, As explained later in this thread, my choice of words in the initial proposal weren't the best suited. I fully agree that Sam's suggestion is better (as often happens when you propose something and solicit feedback), and as such, I have proposed a changed text (sent yesterday to this list) and would like some feedback on that instead, if possible. I believe that addresses the concerns of many people.
I don't believe that having an interest in the project should prevent you from working with it (imagine if that applied to committers ;), but I still do believe that recommendation and the final review of a podling should be carried out by someone with an arm's length distance from the podling. I also believe we could improve on how the incubator operates and perhaps separate such podling reviews from mentorship itself, but I fully realize that it's not something we can simply magically change with a few lines of text in a document. With regards, Daniel. On 10/10/2015 04:49 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (3980) wrote: > So here’s my elaboration. > > The proposal below would have prevented me from ever helping > projects to the ASF and convincing them that it may be a good > home for them. I’ve always had financial ties to a project’s > Incubation status. In many cases, projects being at the ASF, > and my involvement in them has assisted my mission of doing > scientific research and helping win proposals and so forth for > NASA and other agencies. > > Further, I’ve many times been at the same institution in which > the project has originated from before the ASF. > > I think I’ve done a good job on the projects I’ve helped to > bring here and they have been successful too and have overall > benefitted the ASF. > > This rings to me very similar to Roy’s email circa 2012 I believe > in which in the Incubator we tried to force the diversity requirement > as a graduation requirement, and Roy succinctly explained that we > can’t punish e.g., a podling for having people all from the same > institution. That would punish that institution for hiring folks > for open source who work on code at the ASF. Diversity is always > a strong property of a podling as I feel it makes it more resilient > but it’s not a hard requirement. I feel the same thing in this thread. > > Cheers, > Chris > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > Chris Mattmann, Ph.D. > Chief Architect > Instrument Software and Science Data Systems Section (398) > NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA > Office: 168-519, Mailstop: 168-527 > Email: chris.a.mattm...@nasa.gov > WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/ > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > Adjunct Associate Professor, Computer Science Department > University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: jpluser <chris.a.mattm...@jpl.nasa.gov> > Reply-To: "general@incubator.apache.org" <general@incubator.apache.org> > Date: Friday, October 9, 2015 at 5:14 PM > To: "general@incubator.apache.org" <general@incubator.apache.org> > Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Mentor neutrality policy > >> I do not agree with this proposal I will elaborate more later >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Oct 9, 2015, at 8:07 AM, Daniel Gruno <humbed...@apache.org> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Incubator folks, >>> >>> I would like to propose we adopt a mentor neutrality policy for >>> incubating podlings: >>> >>> - A mentor must not be financially tied to the project or its incubation >>> status. >>> - A mentor must not have a vested interest in incubating, graduating or >>> dismantling a podling that goes beyond the general Apache mission >>> - A mentor must not be affiliated with the entity granting the code >>> (company or original project community) >>> >>> Furthermore, I would like to see this extended to votes on graduating or >>> retiring podlings, so that only people with no organizational (aparty >>> from the ASF) or financial ties to the project (or the companies behind >>> it) can cast a binding vote on graduation or retirement. >>> >>> This would essentially mean: >>> >>> - If you work for a company (or are hired as consultant/advisor) that is >>> entering a project into incubation, you cannot mentor it nor vote >>> for/against its incubation, graduation or retirement. >>> - If you are a in the original community behind the project, you cannot >>> mentor it nor vote for/against it. >>> >>> I believe this would create a neutral mentorship whose sole mission is >>> to guide podlings with the interests of the ASF in mind. >>> >>> >>> Please do discuss this. If there is (mostly) positive feedback, I would >>> like to, at some point, have a vote on including this in the Incubator >>> policy. I realize this would cut down on the number of potential >>> mentors, and I would ask that more people step up to the challenge of >>> mentoring if adopted. >>> >>> With regards, >>> Daniel >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org >>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org >>> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org >> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
