I'd like second and extend Benson's point about clarifying how these things should work. In addition to clarifying what it means to graduate into a subproject now that that is frowned upon, clarifying how these votes work would help. I think Chris felt that we ignored his vote and pushed ahead. From my reading of the docs it was supposed to be a majority vote and thus to view the -1s as a veto would be to improperly ignore the 5 +1s. If the rules were clear in advance for the next group that faces this situation it will help to avoid these misunderstandings and frustrations.
Alan. On Feb 14, 2013, at 3:29 AM, Benson Margulies wrote: > I'm not so much opinionated as confused here, perhaps because I have a > very linear view of governance. > > I like to know how a vote fits into a governance structure or process, > and I've felt for some time that this case (podling goes to existing > TLP) is not well-explained by our structure. > > Back in the days when subprojects were normal and valid, the incubator > had a role on behalf of' an existing TLP in supervising IP and > community behavior. Graduation meant: "OK, umbrella, we certify that > these people can behave like a project and have clean IP." And, > perhaps, the board actually established subprojects? It's all before > my time. > > Now that subprojects are no longer in the picture, I don't even know > why the IPMC should ever incubate a podling *if the plan, from the > start, is to be part of some existing TLP.* So I have assumed that > HCatalog started out with the intention to grow into an entire TLP, > and came up with the Hive plan as a fallback. > > To try to make this long story shorter, I think that we should make a > proposal to the board with a schema for handling this case that makes > sense in current conditions. I'm happy for it to be your schema, which > amounts, as I see it, to the board having a supervisory moment when > this happens, with an IPMC vote providing the same sort of strong > recommendation one way or the other that it does for establishing a > TLP. > > > > > > On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 12:49 AM, Mattmann, Chris A (388J) > <chris.a.mattm...@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote: >> Hi Benson, >> >> I saw your later email(s) and Incubator board report. It's fine and I >> think the message of my objection comes across. >> So thanks for that. >> >> One thing I wanted to comment on: >> >> On 2/13/13 4:10 AM, "Benson Margulies" <bimargul...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Chris, >>> >>> The obvious compromise is to ask them to report the vote result as it >>> happened, it seems to me, -1's and all. But where do you think that >>> they are reporting anything? There's nothing happening here at the >>> board level. There's no board resolution needed for a Hive committer >>> to type 'svn cp' on the hcatalog tree, >> >> Not by my counts. There's a *community* resolution and a recommendation to >> be made by the IPMC, nonetheless. >> Otherwise, the IPMC is pretty useless IMO, and more importantly, so is the >> Incubator. >> >> Why bother even incubating HCatalog? Hive could have simply svn cp'ed >> whatever code came in, or whatever code the podling arrived at, and >> Incubation would have stopped then. But we both know that's not the way it >> works. Even if a podling graduates to an existing TLP, go check out the >> past resolutions. You'll note there's a section in there that discharges >> the responsibility of the IPMC for the podling. So, yes, the IPMC *is* >> involved. And yes, the IPMC vote matters. >> >> Cheers, >> Chris >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org >> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
