Hi Mikeal, Excellent answer, thanks very much for the clarification. I myself have enjoyed using Selenium in the past, and Windmill sounds like a definite improvement. It sounds great - I think it would be a worthwhile Incubator project.
+1 (non-binding) Thanks, Les On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 6:19 PM, Mikeal Rogers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > Of those 3 it's the most like Selenium. > > As far as I know the "proxy spoof" method was pioneered by Selenium and > we've continued to use/evolve that method of "tricking" the browser's same > domain security policy. Our implementation of the test API has been very > different from selenium as is our proxy <-> javascript communication > workflow. > > Since our initial release we've done a lot of feature work around the > recording, debugging, and test editing workflows. We've also done a good > amount of work both in the proxy and in the javascript layer to make having > a single test move around different target domains remain seamless and > transparent. > > It's been a while since I used Selenium so I can't comment on their current > feature list compared to ours, but at the time we decided to write Windmill > we were incredibly frustrated with the process of maintaining tests written > in Selenium in an environment where the target product changed rapidly. We > found that debugging and editing a test after changes to the product to be > as difficult as writing the entire test all over again from scratch and have > continued to improve windmill around our own use cases as well as user > community feedback. > > I hope that answers your question, this was a fairly high level answer, if > you'd like I can go over any of those features/differences in more detail > and point you at any code. > > -Mikeal > > > On Aug 14, 2008, at August 14, 20081:40 PM, Les Hazlewood wrote: > > Just out of curiosity, where does this fit in versus, say, Selenium, MaxQ, >> Canoo WebTest, and others? >> >> There's nothing wrong if Windmill does the same stuff - I'm just curious >> what it can do in comparison. >> >> Cheers, >> >> Les >> >> On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 4:32 PM, Mikeal Rogers <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >wrote: >> >> This is a proposal to enter the incubator. >>> >>> See http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/WindmillProposal for the most >>> up-to-date version. >>> >>> We look forward to comments and discussion. >>> >>> = Abstract = >>> >>> The goal of Windmill is to build the best tool for automated testing of >>> dynamic Web applications across all major browsers. >>> >>> = Proposal = >>> >>> Windmill provides a full-stack automation solution for dynamic >>> Web-application testing. >>> >>> It accomplishes this by implementing an extensive test API in JavaScript, >>> and providing an intelligent proxy that can overcome the browser's >>> same-domain security policy. The test API allows a single test to run on >>> every major browser across all major operating systems. >>> >>> Windmill boasts a wide range of debugging and test-authoring tools that >>> make test writing, debugging, and editing a more streamlined process. >>> >>> = Background = >>> >>> Windmill was created at the Open Source Applications Foundation by Mikeal >>> Rogers and Adam Christian to test the Chandler Server Web UI. It was >>> announced more broadly at OSCON 2007 and has since enjoyed a wide range >>> of >>> use and contributions. >>> >>> In January 2008, all the full-time, paid contributors from OSAF moved on >>> to >>> other employment. The project has since retained steady contribution >>> despite >>> having no full-time, paid contributors. >>> >>> In July 2008, we proposed the project move its hosting away from OSAF >>> because of uncertainty about long term sustainability -- due to OSAF's >>> transition to a smaller-scale, mostly volunteer structure. >>> >>> = Rationale = >>> >>> Windmill was created to fulfill a need for a better dynamic >>> Web-application >>> testing tool after much frustration with existing solutions. We believe >>> it >>> has accomplished this goal and continues to improve, with ongoing, open >>> interaction with the community. >>> >>> What the project currently lacks is clear direction, leadership, and >>> process. We believe the project would benefit greatly from Incubator >>> mentorship, which would allow it to see much wider adoption, and grow a >>> broader community. >>> >>> = Current Status = >>> >>> == Meritocracy == >>> >>> Since the project's inception, its development has been coordinated >>> through >>> collaborative decision-making (e.g., "+1 voting") on the mailing list, >>> and >>> open discussion on IRC. >>> >>> == Community == >>> >>> Although the list of Core Developers has remained small we've welcomed >>> outside contributions. Along with a few small but good patches, we've >>> received some very good bugs and numerous features requests from the >>> community. Our wiki documentation is being continually improved by our >>> users. >>> >>> We also have a very good reputation of providing support and resolving >>> problems on IRC (#windmill on irc.freenode.net).A number of our users >>> have >>> stayed around to help others in need. >>> >>> == Core Developers == >>> >>> Mikeal Rogers (Most of the Python code) >>> Adam Christian (Most of the JavaScript code) >>> >>> == Alignment == >>> >>> Since Windmill was started at OSAF, it has enjoyed contributions from a >>> variety of paid staff at OSAF. All of those employees are now employed >>> elsewhere -- below are the ones that are still active. >>> >>> * Mikeal Rogers (Mozillla) >>> * Adam Christian (Slide) >>> * Matthew Eernisse (Seesmic) >>> >>> = Known Risks = >>> >>> == Orphaned Products == >>> >>> The project has survived the loss of paid contributions and continues to >>> grow in use, despite a clear lack of leadership (I have only myself to >>> blame). >>> >>> == Inexperience with Open Source == >>> >>> All the contributors have a history in open-source development and the >>> policies of the project were developed with the help of Ted Leung. >>> >>> == Reliance on Salaried Developers == >>> >>> As of July 2008 one developer is paid part-time for his work on Windmill. >>> The rest of the contributions are all volunteer at this time. >>> >>> == A Excessive Fascination with the Apache Brand == >>> >>> One can't ignore the impact the Apache brand has on a project, but what >>> this project needs isn't branding -- it's the benefit of Incubator >>> mentorship, direction, leadership, and process. >>> >>> = Documentation = >>> >>> http://windmill.osafoundation.org/ >>> >>> = Initial Source = >>> >>> The code is currently hosted on OSAF's Subversion server. >>> >>> http://svn.osafoundation.org/windmill/ >>> >>> = Source and Intellectual Property Submission Plan = >>> >>> We've gotten consent from OSAF to move the project to new location. >>> >>> = External Dependencies = >>> >>> We have a long list of external Python dependencies. These dependencies >>> are >>> managed via setuptools and are not distributed with the Windmill product >>> and >>> as such should not need be a licensing concern. >>> >>> = Required Resources = >>> >>> == Mailing lists == >>> >>> * windmill-commits >>> * windmill-dev >>> * windmill-users >>> >>> == Subversion Directory == >>> >>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/windmill >>> >>> == Issue Tracking == >>> >>> JIRA Windmill >>> >>> = Initial Committers = >>> >>> * Mikeal Rogers >>> * Adam Christian >>> * Matthew Eernisse >>> >>> = Sponsors = >>> >>> == Champion == >>> >>> Ted Leung >>> >>> == Nominated Mentors == >>> >>> * Ted Leung >>> >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> >>> >>> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >
