On May 30, 2008, at 9:24 AM, sebb wrote:
On 30/05/2008, Brian E. Fox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
we've been arguing for years about ease of use verses informed
choice
for users of incubator artifacts. not sure that any consensus has
been
reached. the current policy just introduces friction (until someone
uploads the artifact to the central repository).
So are we considering informed choice to be transitive? The informed
choice is a red herring in the case of regular Apache releases
depending
on the incubator artifacts. If they add the incubator repo to their
pom,
then most users of their artifact won't even notice it. Only those
that
are using repo managers or other policies are getting trapped by
this.
All the more reason not to allow regular releases to depend on
incubator artefacts.
IMO, that would be a MAJOR hardship for the incubator projects and
would make the process of growing their communities even harder.
That's probably the hardest part of graduating and we should be
HELPING them, not hindering them.
Lets look at a couple of recently graduated projects:
Woden: if the major webservice projects like Axis 2, Synapse, etc..
could not take a dependency on Woden, it would have been very hard for
the Woden project to attract new developers and grow it's base.
Also, the projects like Axis 2 wouldn't have been able to implement
the features they needed, etc...
CXF: ServiceMix and Camel chose to use CXF for their WebServices stuff
as it met their needs better than the other alternatives. If they
couldn't have depended on CXF, they would have been forced to use
something that didn't work as well for them, the CXF community
wouldn't have had those users to pull from, etc... Also, a couple of
the committers CXF added (jgawor, jgenender) were a direct result of
the work with the Geronimo team as they integrated CXF.
OpenEJB/OpenJPA/etc... Geronimo really needed these to provide the
functionality it needed. Again, without Geronimo needing this stuff,
it would have been harder.
Basically, part of growing a community is attracting folks from OTHER
communities. If the other communities cannot depend on your
artifacts, that becomes nearly impossible. If they cannot use your
artifacts, they will either look elsewhere or possibly even fork the
incubator code into their own projects where they CAN depend on it.
That would definitely be a bad precedent to start.
IMO, allowing the other projects to use the incubator artifacts is a
very important part of helping the incubator projects grow their
communities and eventually succeed in graduating.
Dan
--Brian
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Daniel Kulp
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.dankulp.com/blog
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