Steven Noels wrote:
Lenya has an awkward history IMHO. It has been force-fed into the bowls of the ASF upon the idea that a community was more important than code, and because of pet-peeves of people: the ASF needed a CMS project, and Lenya would be a community seed for that - regardless of the community aptness to serve as one. The original Lenya folks were clueless about the Apache Open Source Way, but felt so much "invited" into the ASF that they figured they were doing a good job. The original number of committers was bloated, and their communication about the incubation status of Lenya was tendencious at best. Wyona didn't do a great job at opening up the project to the outside world (other than dumping code into public CVS), and there wasn't much direction or shared project ownership.
well, I think it was and is quite different, but it doesn't make sense to argue about perceptions.
I am not saying that none of us didn't make mistakes, but my perception is nevertheless quite different, especially since I see ourselves as individuals and not as a company within the Lenya community.
It certainly makes sense to learn from concrete mistakes, but not from assumptions or perceptions, because we will probably never stop argueing. Also I think all of us acted very promptly on requests from various sides.
So, I think the important thing is to look ahead and see the positive side as Steven is stating below.
What I see now is people empowering themselves and caring only about the project, not about all the peripheral dreams or company ambitions. This is a tremendous shift in project governance. I think the ASF needs to acknowledge and endorse this shift and give these people the ability to continue their course.
agreed
Whether this course will be successful, we will only know within a year or so. I hope these folks will be able to attract new committers and continue what they started.
I am very optimistic on this, but I guess you know that ;-)
Michi
I'll be carefully looking after ASF brand abuse however in the forthcoming months. This entire incubation episode has left me with dubious feelings: for a long time, I've been thinking that Lenya would be a sad example of premature ASF donation. It is good to see that some volunteers finally stepped up and managed to create real momentum, and I can only hope they will last for a long time. Lenya will still need to acquire more external contributors to help them with this effort.
I'm glad to hear about the latter part of that paragraph, but you have to
admit that the first part of the paragraph is enough to give one pause. So
please explain why we should have a incubator release while there are still
so many questions regarding the viability of the community? Yes, you are
indicating that there are new members within the Lenya community who are
focused on doing everything properly. Great, but I'm still trying to
understand why there is a need to put out a distribution rather than put all
of the energy into helping Lenya conclude incubation and then release.
As I said, it's just a matter of the community maturing, and feeling two urges at the same time. Order isn't very important here.
I hope this clarifies things a bit, feel free to nag me with other questions.
Cheers,
</Steven>
-- Michael Wechner Wyona Inc. - Open Source Content Management - Apache Lenya http://www.wyona.com http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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