On Thu, Apr 15, 2021 at 9:09 PM Eric S. Raymond <e...@thyrsus.com> wrote: > > Ian Lance Taylor <i...@google.com>: > > Patronizing or infantilizing anybody doesn't come into this at all. > > I am not even *remotely* persuaded of this. This whole attitude that if > a woman is ever exposed to a man with less than perfect American > upper-middle-class manners it's a calamity requiring intervention > and mass shunning, that *reeks* of infantilizing women.
I just don't see it. Maybe occasionally. But in general you see someone acting badly, and you think "I don't want to associate with that person." Preferring to work with people who treat others decently is not about infantilizing others. > > We want free software to succeed. Free software is more likely to > > succeed if more people work on it. If you are a volunteer, as many > > are, you can choose to spend your time on the project where you have > > to short-stop unwelcome advances, where you are required to deal with > > "men with poor social skills." Or you can choose to spend your time > > on the project where people treat you with respect. Which one do you > > choose? > > The one where your expected satisfaction is higher, with boorishness > from autistic males factored in as one of the overheads. Don't try to > tell me that's a deal-killer, I've known too many women who would > laugh at you for that assumption. I'm not saying either option is a deal killer, I'm saying you have to make a choice. And more generally a project has to make a choice. > > Or perhaps you have a job that requires you to work on free software. > > Now, if you work on a project where the people act like RMS, you are > > being forced by your employer to work in a space where you face > > unwelcome advances and men who have "trouble recognizing boundaries." > > That's textbook hostile environment, and a set up for you to sue your > > employer. So your employer will never ask anyone to work on a project > > where people act like that--at least, they won't do it more than once. > > Here's what happens in the real world (and I'm not speculating, I was > a BoD member of a tech startup at one time, stuff like this came up). > You say "X is being a jerk - can I work on something else?" Your > employer, rightly terrified of the next step, is not going to "force" > you to do a damn thing. He's going to bend over backwards to > accommodate you. Yes. > What I am pushing for is for everyone to recognize that *women are > adults* - they have their own agency and are in general perfectly > capable of treating an RMS-class jerk as at worst a minor annoyance. OK, you got it. Not sure it's relevant to what I'm saying, though. Ian
