Hi! There were a lot of questions addressed to me. I want to answer them all.
But since I have very few time, I will do it one after another during the next days. At work, I have newer configs than at home, so regarding source code examples, I want to fetch them from work to home before I can post them. lee wrote: > Michael Großer <michael.gros...@gmx.de> writes: >> So, as you see, these are habits. Its like owning a big house with >> 6 floors (the desktop clusters), 12 rooms per floor and 12 tables per room. > > What is a desktop cluster? I made screenshots from a very old Debian Lenny VirtualBox machine I'm still running at home. They should explain the difference between pages, desks and desktop clusters. - A page is the name that FVWM gives to viewports - A desk is what many other window managers left over after abolished pages - A desktop cluster is concept invented by me: - I group 12 desks (144 pages) to 1 cluster of desktops. - That is all. I just needed a name for this. Here are the screenshots I took today: http://www.jumping-blue-turtle.com/online-shop/0005_lenny/debian/fvwm/screenshots/fvwm-list/2016-06-35-Sa/ There are 7 screenhots: - cluster 1, desk 1, page 1 --> Pager one displays desk 1 to desk 12 --> Pager two displays desk 1 to desk 4 - cluster 1, desk 1, page 2 --> Pager one displays desk 1 to desk 12 --> Pager two displays desk 1 to desk 4 - cluster 1, desk 1, page 12 --> Pager one displays desk 1 to desk 12 --> Pager two displays desk 1 to desk 4 - cluster 1, desk 8, page 6 --> Pager one displays desk 1 to desk 12 --> Pager two displays desk 5 to desk 8 - cluster 1, desk 12, page 12 --> Pager one displays desk 1 to desk 12 --> Pager two displays desk 1 to desk 4 - cluster 2, desk 1, page 1 --> Pager one displays desk 13 to desk 24 --> Pager two displays desk 13 to desk 16 (or desk 1 to 4 when you consider them relatively to cluster 2) - cluster 3, desk 12, page 12 --> Pager one displays desk 25 to desk 36 --> Pager two displays desk 33 to desk 36 (or desk 9 to 12 when you consider them relatively to cluster 3) >> The pagers show me where I am. > > I imagine they take up like half your screen ... No. Look at the 7 screenshots. See above. The pagers show me a fraction of all possible desks. This saves space. > Oh, how do you do that? I'd find that very useful because MOTT, I'm > switching back and forth between two particular pages. I invented this kind of bookmark mechanism just few months ago. I will bring it home from work and will post it then... >> --> Thunderbird (Icedove) >> >> - Desktop cluster 1, desk 9, page 1 >> --> Lotus Notes (32bit app running via chroot) >> >> - Desktop cluster 1, desk 9, page 2, 6 and 10: >> --> Some SSH sessions on the Xen server to monitor the >> server (free -m -t, top, xentop_wide) > tmux works great for this > > Ironically, you also need to either remember which buffer is what, or > switch between them to figure it out. I'm finding that much easier than > with pages, though. And tmux keeps running. Do it as you want. For me, it is eays enough to switch between pages just by using <Win> + <on of the 4 arrow key> How I switch between pages, desk and clusters, I explained here: https://www.mail-archive.com/fvwm@fvwm.org/msg02282.html My latest shortcuts are these: - <Win> + <F1 ... F12 or arrow keys> = pages - <Shift> + <Win> + <F1 ... F12 or arrow keys> = desks - <Shift> + <Win> + <Alt> + <F1 ... F6> or <Shift> + <Win> + <Home or End or PgUp or PgDwn> = desktop clusters - Mouseclicks on one of the two pagers work too > Apparently, the way-finding information gets stored when I switch to a > page, and it isn't updated while I remain there --- why would it? It > doesn't make sense to update way-finding information while one remains > in place. > > When I want to go to another page and recall the information stored when > I arrived on the current page, it doesn't match what I'm looking at, so > the information is automatically discarded because it's obviously not > right --- and difficult to update. So I start switching between pages > to figure out where I am. MOTT, I switch to the wrong page first, and I > think I abort the attempt to recall the information about that page, and > to figure out in which direction I need to switch from here, because > that's also difficult, and it seems easier and faster to keep switching. > > It then annoys me that I can't figure out any straight way that takes me > to the page I want to go to, and that I switch between them like crazy, > because I always think I should be able to remember. > > Perhaps knowing this can help me to remember. I need to try that out. For my way of working, it helps that I think in numbers and that I think spatially: - I have habits - I associate applications and topics with numbers (thinking in numbers) - I associate applications and topics with locations (thinking spatially) - However I associate applications and topics, I do it everyday in the same way - When I spontaneously open a lot of new window types, I put them somewhere where space is. Later, when I'm looking for something that I opened previously (a particular web page, a particular text file, an image, a calculator, a spreatsheet, ...) I use my shortcuts, move from one page to another and look with my eyes what there is. In most cases, it doesn't take long until I find what I search for - The same situation when I use tabbed browsing or editors with tabs: I use a shortcut to switch all tabs from left to right until I find the web page or source code file that I was looking for - It's important to bind all essential movements (like switching to another place or tab) to keyboard short cuts or to learn the existing shortcuts when using special software that offers tabbed browsing > Well, it's amazing :) > > How do you restore all that when you need to restart your computer or > X11 session? Unfortunately, currently I don't have a good solution for that: - I close all applications when I shut down a machine and start them from scratch after a machine rebooted - In the past, I wrote fvwm macros that opened some daily needed midnight commanders with their pathes and placed them to their locations (cluster, desk, page), but I don't do this currently, because maintaining these macros costs more time than I save when I use them - When I worked via VNC (over VPN) in the past, I just let the vServer run for several days or weeks (and rebooted it only, when a memory leak ate up too much RAM. But VNC has unsolvable problems with <Shift>, <Alt>, <Win> and <Ctrl> keys. When I press such a key, VNC very often forgets that I press one and a <Ctrl>+<C> can be interpreted as <C> with the result of replacing selected text by the letter C instead of copying the selected text. One day, I replaced VPN by a local LAN connection and that problem got far worse than better and I dumped the whole VNC approach in favor of a VirtualBox solution. - These days, I let the computer with very many open applications just run over night and reboot it only every few weeks (as long as I don't maintain it; than I have to reboot to be able to save clean VirtualBox snapshots) - At home, I don't run so much applications simultaniously so that I can power of my computers in the evening and open them the next morning. - One approach that could be pondered about: Making VirtualBox snapshots of fully running systems. But applications running via SSH (xterms, web browsers, remmina sessions, ...) do not necessarily survice these hibernations (and Screen is not always a good alternative to pure xterm based SSH sessions, because Screen does not allow page scrolling) So, restoring is something that is not really good solved currently. Somewhere in your writings, I read something about windows that cover pagers. I'm not sure if it was the quote below or something from another post: >> I have the pager almost invariably exposed, and know which desk I am >> in because it is highlighted in the pager in a different colour. > > I have the pager always covered up by some window. It just takes away > so much screen space that it's only visible on empty, or almost empty, > desks. > >> Three of the desks are named Mail Web and Net, the other are ABCD. I >> know in which desk I am also by a label in the bottom right corner, >> and by the background colour of the root window. > > So you actually see the root window :) What I can contribute: As you can see in my screenshots, I almost always see the pager and a bit of my root window. The trick is that I have my own way to maximize windows: Here is something from my FVWM config: ============================================================ > Key Return WTSF123456789 4 Maximize 100 -62p > Key KP_Enter WTSF123456789 4 Maximize 100 -62p <Win>+<Return> or <Win>+<Enter> maximizes the current window (the one that is active). With '-62p', I ensure that the pager and a bit of my root window (the space between task bar and clock) gets not covered by the maximized window). > Mouse 1 4 A Maximize 100 -62p > Mouse 2 4 A Maximize 0 -62p > Mouse 3 4 A Maximize 100 0 When I click with the mouse on icon 4 of a window (the second one from the right), then the window also maximizes: * left button: - horizontally = 100% of the screen - vertically = all but the bottom (containing the pager) * middle button: - maximizes the window only vertically with the same rules as described above * right button: - maximizes the window only horizontally (100%) I also have short cuts to partially maximize windows (only vertically or only horizontally): > Key Left WTSF123456789 SCM Maximize 100 0 > Key Right WTSF123456789 SCM Maximize 100 0 > Key Up WTSF123456789 SCM Maximize 0 -62p > Key Down WTSF123456789 SCM Maximize 0 100 - <Shift>+<Ctrl>+<Alt>+<arrow left or arrow right> maximizes only horizontally - <Shift>+<Ctrl>+<Alt>+<arrow up> maximizes only vertically and does not cover the pager - <Shift>+<Ctrl>+<Alt>+<arrow down> is an exception: It maximizes only vertically but it does this 100 per cent. I use this short cut when I intentionally want to cover the pager. It's also possible to move windows in a way that they cover the pager. And, when I use Firefox and pres <F11>, then the full screen also covers the pager. Mplayer and VLC too. Exceptions make sense, because full screen meand full screen. When I'm watching movies full screen, then I don't want to see the pagers. But 99% of my time I do want to see the pager, so covering the pager is an exception. Mostly, it remains uncovered. I even have short cuts that move windows to an edge of the screen. Like this: > # bump window to the edge > Key Left WTSF123456789 CM moveTheWindow +0 keep > Key Right WTSF123456789 CM moveTheWindow -0 keep > Key Up WTSF123456789 CM moveTheWindow keep +0 > Key Down WTSF123456789 CM moveTheWindow keep -62p As you can see, <Ctrl>+<Alt>+<arrow down> does not bump on the edge of the real screen but on the edge of the line defined by me that edges the top of the pagers. Since I ripped the last 5 lines out of a larger concept, here are some more short cuts and the function 'moveTheWindow' defined by me: > # function to move windows around > DestroyFunc moveTheWindow > AddToFunc moveTheWindow > + I SetEnv BOOKMARKED_WINDOW $[w.id] > + I Move $0 $1 > + I WindowId $[BOOKMARKED_WINDOW] WarpToWindow 50 50 > > # bump window to the edge > Key Left WTSF123456789 CM moveTheWindow +0 keep > Key Right WTSF123456789 CM moveTheWindow -0 keep > Key Up WTSF123456789 CM moveTheWindow keep +0 > Key Down WTSF123456789 CM moveTheWindow keep -62p > > # move window relatively > Key Left WTSF123456789 CM4 moveTheWindow w-10p keep > Key Right WTSF123456789 CM4 moveTheWindow w+10p keep > Key Up WTSF123456789 CM4 moveTheWindow keep w-10p > Key Down WTSF123456789 CM4 moveTheWindow keep w+10p ============================================================ For all other persons who read here: I work with FVWM since 2010. Most of the time, I just work with it. I only extend my config when I have new demands or when problems occure whose resolution justify the investment of time. My config examples may be dirty, but as long as they work, I just work with them. OK, I answered a lot more than I intended for today. The bookmark mechanism will follow later... ~ Michael ~
