Think how multiple sound making entities "combine" "fuse" to produce Eroica in the ears-brains of an listener. Now imagine something akin but in multiple dimensions as hundreds of thousands of simultaneous inputs combine/fuse to create the illusion of self and consciousness.
davew On Thu, Aug 15, 2024, at 8:39 AM, glen wrote: > I can't shake the feeling that "unified" and "unitary" are too simplistic. > >> For example, human consciousness is often said to be unified, in the sense >> that all the various experiences that one has at the same time occur as >> components or elements of a single complex experience. [...] >> Some theories of consciousness, such as the Integrated Information Theory, >> assume that any form of consciousness must be unitary, but that assumption >> is questionable. Octopus consciousness, if indeed there is such a thing, >> might be anything but unified. > > That's why I prefer "fusion". The ganglia (~2 in humans, ~9 in > octopuses?) execute functions broadly describable as fusion. But our > gut ganglion most likely fuses different perception signals from that > of our brains. The fusion in an octopus' central brain is prolly > different from that of its arm brains, maybe even higher order (fusion > of fusions). So, no, neither the octopus' consciousness nor our > consciousness are "unitary". That seems preposterous to me. But > "fused"? Yeah ... somehow. Another decent term might be "mixed" or > "mixture". That seems more agnostic and general. Maybe fusion is a > sub-type of mixing. And allowing that neural structures, down to > individual cells and organelles, do mixing (chemical-electrical > transduction) but ganglia do fusion gives us a spectrum of integration? > Of course, ideally, we'd like to be able to extend a functional > description down to dictyostelium signaling. I can't do that even in > COVID-induced fever dreams. [sigh] > > On 8/14/24 21:31, Santafe wrote: >> Cool. Nepal even has mystical hillsides. >> >> My colleage The Mystic has informed me that only we (in “the west” in “the >> modern era") are degraded and malformed people; all other cultures have >> Wisdom Traditions. So any child in one of those Other Cultures already has >> an understanding of Reality that all of us Westerners are incapable of >> achieving because we grew up in the absence of Wisdom Traditions. It kind >> of reminds me of the Krell in whatever film it was. (Forbidden planet?) >> >> I have often wondered what I am supposed to do with declarations like that >> one. I have to accept that it is true, since he has told me that he has an >> apprehension of Reality, but that it could not explained to me, because >> that’s not how those apprehensions work. Hopefully the Noema mag will >> provide further input, when I can get time to read it. >> >> Eric >> >> >> >>> On Aug 15, 2024, at 2:38, Roger Critchlow <r...@elf.org> wrote: >>> >>> https://www.noemamag.com/exploring-the-boundaries-of-consciousness/ >>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.noemamag.com%2fexploring-the-boundaries-of-consciousness%2f&c=E,1,JPgTSlb6W5BoLUrZDMDHXpPYcHDxQIowhbHRnbBn9D_s7Owuzgw3iIapMGGo0msXQyFsLwcfkxz5zG4x1AocbX1T_E7qze8Fajc2H8A_rkZ9GB_yCA,,&typo=1> >>> >>> Whaddya know, its on topic. >>> >>> -- rec -- >>> >>> On Wed, Aug 14, 2024 at 2:11 PM Marcus Daniels <mar...@snoutfarm.com >>> <mailto:mar...@snoutfarm.com>> wrote: >>> >>> Claude remarks:____ >>> >>> __ __ >>> >>> << Good Soldier Švejk might respond to questions about consciousness >>> and information determinism with a seemingly irrelevant anecdote, perhaps >>> about a drunk man convinced his goldfish was controlling his thoughts >>> through "information in the water." >>____ >>> > > > -- > ꙮ Mɥǝu ǝlǝdɥɐuʇs ɟᴉƃɥʇ' ʇɥǝ ƃɹɐss snɟɟǝɹs˙ ꙮ > > -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom > https://bit.ly/virtualfriam > to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: 5/2017 thru present > https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ > 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom https://bit.ly/virtualfriam to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
