, Great! Baby steps. "If we aren't moving slowly, we aren't moving." So, can I define some new terms, tentatively, *per explorandum* ? Let's call acting-in-respect-to-the-world, "awareness". Allowing this definition, we certainly seem to agree that the cat is aware. Lets define meta-awareness as acting i respect to one's own awareness. Now, am I correct in assuming that you identify meta-awareness with consciousness and that you think that the cat is not meta-aware and that I probably am? And further that you think that meta-awareness requires consciousness?
Nick On Fri, Jul 5, 2024 at 12:17 PM Jochen Fromm <j...@cas-group.net> wrote: > I would say a cat is conscious in the sense that it is aware of its > immediate environment. Cats are nocturnal animals who hunt at night and > mostly sleep during the day. Consciousness in the sense of being aware of > oneself as an actor in an environment requires understanding of language > which only humans have ( and LLMs now ) > > https://www.quantamagazine.org/insects-and-other-animals-have-consciousness-experts-declare-20240419/ > > -J. > > > -------- Original message -------- > From: Nicholas Thompson <thompnicks...@gmail.com> > Date: 7/5/24 5:02 AM (GMT+01:00) > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com> > > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Why the Mystery of Consciousness Is Deeper Than We > Thought > > Jochen, > > > *I think the first step in any conversation is to decide whether your cat > is conscious. If so, why do you think so; if not, likewise. I had a > facinnationg conversation with GBT about whether he was conscious and he > denied it "hotly", which, of course, met one of his criteria for > consciousness. * > > > *So. Is your cat connscious?* > > > *Nick * > > On Thu, Jul 4, 2024 at 7:26 PM Jochen Fromm <j...@cas-group.net> wrote: > >> I don't get Philip Goff: first we send our children 20 years to school, >> from Kindergarten to college and university, to teach them all kinds of >> languages, and then we wonder how they can be conscious. It will be the >> same for AI: first we spend millions and millions to train them all >> available knowledge, and then we wonder how they can develop understanding >> of language and consciousness... >> >> https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-mystery-of-consciousness-is-deeper-than-we-thought/ >> >> -J. >> >> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom >> https://bit.ly/virtualfriam >> to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> archives: 5/2017 thru present >> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ >> 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >> > -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom > https://bit.ly/virtualfriam > to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: 5/2017 thru present > https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ > 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >
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