NST - > > Well, Steve, > > > > Again I ask, What exactly are you seeking. And why are you seeking > THAT? > I'll take this as a literal question, directed specifically *to* me based on the text I just shared. The simple, glib answer is "I don't know" to both questions. A similarly simplified but not as glib answer is that I am seeking A) pain/discomfort relief for myself, using the device as marketed.; B) an operative/intuitive understanding of the basic effects of high frequency/low voltage stimulation of the skin/musculature/ligature/fascia out of curiosity and a hope to be more efficient with A for myself and others such as Mary who is the one having acute issues right now; C) A professional/academic interest in simulated sensoria.
Most here seem happy enough with visual stimulation, and in general the most blunt of visual tricks. Others may also be familiar/experienced with audioscapes, etc. Gamers likely experience visual/auditory simulated experiences with interaction (within a narrative/setting/character framework). Advanced/avante-garde games my also indulge the gamer in world-building (again, within a framework). "cheap" haptics like simple vibration of a mouse/controller or holding other props in one's hand such that impingement between body parts and props or props and props (e.g. chopsticks) are an interesting start, but the various e-stim electrode arrays (mostly for performance/toning enhancement) would seem to provide an entree to full-body simulacra. The various (I'll avoid the acronyms) *sensors* coupled with *activators* seem like they might, for example, support being able to *feel* the air currents under my avatar-Raven's wings whilst allowing me to tweak my pin and tailfeathers to trim my glide/soar all while in VR. Maybe this will be no better than the lucid-dream versions of this, I don't know, but it is one of the many things that compels me. > Just TO head off the usual, this is NOT for me a kinky question but a > very abstract one. And, to be honest, it is a bit rhetorical; ie. I > already have the arrogance to think that I know the answer. I think > there is a sense in which the search is the “goal”, and if you provide > the goal, without a search, you will obliterate it. > > > > Occasionally, when I try to raise an issue on FRIAM I get dragged into > kink as a kind of raillery, and I think, distraction. The best > example was Doug who completely short-sheeted my attempt to discuss > vortexes and entropy by talking about “Swirlies” (NOT Shirleys, to be > clear). > I do find that episode in the Doug-with-a-bone show, now most of a decade behind us, quite seminal in the Friam-Weave... I am mildly abashed at having encouraged Doug to dive down that particular rat-hole. I can't find any compensating value to his "swirlies" tangent beyond being a rude caricature of your fascination (at the time) with vortex formation/maintenance. I agree that those kinds of tangents *are* a distraction almost exclusively. On the other hand, this group is so diverse (within our narrow techno-centric, white-male-mostly, academic-ish spectrum) that we each bring our own parallaxical mirror to the party. A few months back Marcus threatened to write a text-generator that simulated some of the more obvious personalities here which implies that we are all *quite* predictable (at least en-caricature), and all the attempts at straw/steelmanning here seems to include a skinning or stylization intended to reflect the recipient/subject of said steel/straw-man. > > > Let’s take an example that cannot be kinkified. > > > > Let’s take, Getting the Giggles. The Giggles is, for me, one of the > holiest states one can achieve. I know also that it can be produced > when a group of people, familiar and comfortable with one another, > happen on a bit of silliness together. I know also that it can be > produced by smoking pot. So, why bother with the people and the > silliness. Why not just take the drug? To which my answer is, > */Why/* take the drug? > I'm not big on chemical mood-altering myself... even coffee/alcohol are things I avoid (ab)using often. I like me a cup of coffee in the morning and a swig of rye or wine or beer occasionally and they *do* alter my mood/metabolism in ways that I find convenient/desireable, but it has been decades since I deliberately tried to use either to kick me into an entirely different modality. The trope of mean/sloppy/sappy drunk or of caffiene-wired/deprived aren't very interesting to me. The "harder" drugs don't appeal to me either (by extension) particularly? Same for non-chem tech... while I am very interested/practiced in VR/AR I'm not really aiming for a psychedelic experience and in fact would generally avoid those as available (how different is cybersickness from the disorienting/nauseating experiences attributed to amatoxins and alkaloids in psychedelic/entheogenic substances?) That said, I think you are asking roughly about the metaphysics of shortcuts and proxies and simulacra? I think that would be a good discussion to have here, but not clear I can even stimulate one much less lead it. Anecdotally responding to your question of "the Giggles", early in my professional career, my best boss/team ever was having a small technical meeting (6 around a table) when the team leader made the observation: "well, this isn't set in concrete or anything, maybe silly-putty, but not concrete". Silly Putty being in the pantheon of ubiquitous childhood toys (Slinky/Etch-a-Sketch/Hula Hoop/GyroTop/etc) of the 60's and having unique visual/tactile/olfactory bindings (who else knows the smell, the unique way it went from "fluid" to snappable/bounceable-solid, the uncanny-flesh-not-flesh color and the quality of being able to (seemingly without corruption) transfer newsprint forever?), I started cross-binding those qualities with the topic of the meeting (somehow trying to nail down a specification for a subsystem of the big system we were developing/maintaining). The emotional-cognitive dissonance was wycked... I started giggling and after a few minutes of trying to stifle it I left the room, only to return and start again. Nobody else was effected by these giggles, though I could tell my incessant giggling (not my style one whit) *was* fascinating to the others. It has been most of 40 years and I doubt anyone else remembers that incident, but it was the worst/most-unanticipated experience of involuntary response to something higher than what is normally considered autonomic (hiccoughs, sneezes, knee-jerks, blinking, etc.) I endured too many parties where I was the only one in the room who was (absolutely/relatively) sober/straight. I was mildly envious of those who seemed to find *everything* heyelarious, both individually and collectively, and yet... really? For the longest time I thought I was just wired wrong/different, but now I realize it just reflects the paradox of how much we are all alike in entirely different ways. Or is it vice-versa? > > > Nick > > > > Nick Thompson > > thompnicks...@gmail.com <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> > > https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ > <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> > > > > *From:* Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Steve Smith > *Sent:* Thursday, September 16, 2021 2:41 PM > *To:* friam@redfish.com > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] the cancellation arc > > > > Marcus wrote: > > Why did the big bang occur? Was it because God had an orgasm? Jesus. > > The unfolding universe *is* the orgasm? > > ... induced by the meta-Goddess-as-Dominatrix wielding > Dark-Energy-Stim? > > I *was* aware of the sex-application, though I would question Dave's > 10,000x purchases compared to medical relief/rehab and performance > enhancement. When shopping for the (ultimately $30 device) i tripped > over the whole range of applications including a wide range of sexual > kink it would seem. > > I believe electrostim has been used by horse (and maybe more > importantly cattle) breeding for many decades to collect semen for the > turkey-baster work (to be crude)? I hate to guess what the scene > looked liked *developing* this technology... I think that kind of > behaviour would be illegal in most states today. > > The closest I came to "biting" on that application was the conductive > gloves designed to morph amongst traditional > electro-stim/massage/accupuncture... but most of the "unique" > electrode types cost many times the stim unit itself (I suspect it is > just a compact CPU with some D/A converters... probably running > Linux... there are probably DIY Arduino builds or even amplifier > circuits to drive these electrodes from the headphone output of a > smartphone. For my more general interests in synthetic sensoria, I > should check the options of what can in fact be driven from the > headphone jack in consumer HMDs (e.g. Oculus Quest). > > > > > > > > > > > > > .-- .- -. - / .- -.-. - .. --- -. ..--.. / -.-. --- -. .--- ..- --. .- - . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn UTC-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: > 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ > 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
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