Nick, I can't find the message to which this is an appropriate reply. Did you know once say to me that I have no private inner life or not? Maybe I have a false memory.
Frank --- Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, Santa Fe, NM 87505 505 670-9918 Santa Fe, NM On Thu, Aug 26, 2021, 12:22 PM <thompnicks...@gmail.com> wrote: > Ach! My point was I don't think you need organisms, or minds, or any of > the "hard" stuff, to run into the logical problems entailed in moving > between levels of organization. Perhaps I am just too old, too slow, too > HOT, too uninformed, to be in this argument, right now. Or ever? Not > without some help in language mediation, anyway, from some of my trusties, > who are absent from the conversation. So, I bow out. But I love you all. > > N > > Nick Thompson > thompnicks...@gmail.com > https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> On Behalf Of u?l? ?>$ > Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2021 2:08 PM > To: friam@redfish.com > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Eternal questions > > Choosing a particular emotion misses the point, confuses the noise for the > signal. The polyphenism, alone, demonstrates that starting with a > particular emotion and working inversely from that phenotype to the > generators is guaranteed to be a difficult problem ... you're guaranteeing > that we stay stuck in this argument forever. > > Instead, work on the forward map from generator to phenomenon. The article > Roger posted goes a long way to helping us understand how to get from > molecules (or tissue, at least) to either glucose regulation or > storage/retrieval. And we're not talking about billiard balls. We're > talking about ion channels, neuron firing, collections of neurons firing, > anatomical tissue and patterns of firing correlated with such tissue, and > finally spectral analyses of such firing patterns. That carries us along a > forward map from molecules to consciousness (or, at least, perception). > > And I don't think we're going to get to EricS' question without that > compositional stack, because we're going to have to talk about which parts > are Markovian and which parts are not (or are high-order Markovian). > > On 8/26/21 9:34 AM, thompnicks...@gmail.com wrote: > > I guess I think in levels of organization, and my rants are always of > > the form, Grant Each Level Its Due and Do Not Confuse Them. So you can > discuss the amygdala all you want, but you still have not described, or > identified, fear. > > > > > > > > So, you ask, how would a person of my persuasion go about explaining > > the relation between the molecules in my skin and the excitation of > those elections that produce on my screen, what I am writing. Never mind > the socalled hard problem (the problem of the soul). Let’s figure out a way > to talk about that. > > > > > > > > Or for that matter, let’s make it even simpler: Let’s talk about the > > relation between the molecules of a cue ball that result in the motion > of the eightball into a pocket and the loss of the game. Let’s even do > some spherical cowing here and assume that one, and only one molecule of > the cue ball touches one and only one molecule of the eightball. Is this a > good model? Have I understood the question right? > > > > > > > > I don’t think Nick should say “I am my fear.” I think he should say > > “I am the sum total of all the things that I do and that fear is one of > the things I do”. Or, perhaps, to put it in terms of experience-monism, > “I am all that I experience and when I experience my flight behavior in > relation to my experience of my circumstances I experience my fear.” > > > > > > > > > > > > I have to get back to that message from EricS that I bungled my response > to. > > -- > ☤>$ uǝlƃ > > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > > > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >
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