As you say, your alternatives are "money writ large." So how does that eliminate money? It just changes its form.
I don't understand how options further your position. How do you trade them without something like money? -- Russ On Mon, May 10, 2021 at 8:03 AM uǝlƃ ↙↙↙ <[email protected]> wrote: > Yes, I agree it's difficult. And I'm not suggesting I have any knowledge > or expertise. But the principles I listed were intended as a foundation. > Given that foundation, it's difficult for me to imagine *not* having > anything other than money in common with any other trader. That extreme > case, where one party has *zero* commonality with another party prevents us > from realizing that in the overwhelming majority of concrete situations, > there's significant commonality between the parties. > > So, that's not the problem. The problem is in the quantification of > goods/skills being traded. While it's reasonable to, say, trade a pickup > truck for an espresso machine, matching pickup trucks to espresso machines > (rust spots vs pressure specs, etc.), the measure that is money allows us > to quantify them. E.g. my pickup truck is worth 10 of your espresso > machines. That's the technology we call money. > > A significant other aspect is that money (at least fiat) can be > trasnmitted at light speed, which allows me to trade 1 *virtual* pickup > truck for 10 *virtual* espresso machines and TRUST that reciprocity exists. > > But both quantification and virtuality can be (are regularly) implemented > in other dimensions. Money isn't absolutely, unquestionably necessary for > them. (Though it's important that money may, in fact, be the best, most > efficient/effective for some trades.) > > And to go back to the extreme case, where the parties have 0 in common, > literally *any* other dimension can be used as a 3rd, connective, material. > Gold is a good one. Wooden chits might work. Marks on a wooden stick, > maybe? 8^D All these are "money", writ large. But we don't have to think of > them that way. They are reservoirs of value. Even if I don't actually > *want* 10 espresso machines, I might trade my truck for them because I know > 10 locals who do want them. 5 of those 10 locals will give me, say, > playstation DVDs. 2 of them will give me coffee they've roasted. Etc. The > 10 espresso machines act as money. > > To see this happening today, consider options trading. You're buying the > *rights* to some thing/action, virtualized things/actions. You might also > see it in contract clauses like "right of first refusal". Any mediating > reservoir of value might play the role played by money. > > > On 5/10/21 7:35 AM, Russ Abbott wrote: > > I agree that those extra "dimensions," rules, norms, laws, etc. are very > important. Do you believe they could all exist without a framework of money > to refer to, e.g., for penalties (e.g., for when an agreement is not met), > awards (e.g., as incentives for improved or more timely performance), > contracts, arbitration decision, etc? I'm skeptical. It's widely agreed > that one of the primary values of money is to facilitate trade between > people/organizations that don't have specific items to exchange. E.g., > person A wants/needs something person B has "for sale" (whatever that means > in a non-money environment), but person B doesn't want/need anything person > A has "for sale," even though there are others who do want/need what person > A is "selling." Money makes such exchanges possible. How do you see it > happening without money? > > > > More generally, how will society allocate human effort and physical > resources without money? (I'm surprised I hadn't thought of this earlier. > It seems like the core question. I know I mentioned it last time. I > surprised myself by finding it.) It doesn't seem feasible to me to have the > kinds of agreements/contracts you mentioned at the individual level for > each individual. It's still not clear to me how you see it all working. > > -- > ↙↙↙ uǝlƃ > > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >
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