I have a friend who did a long stint in Ghana with the Peace Corps and contracted Malaria during that time and was quite consumed by it by the time he chose to return to the states. He reported (when Hydroxychloroquine came up as a possible remedy for COVID) that he went through a number of high dose courses over (many?) months and while it did help him significantly beat it down, it was not without severe side effects (at those doses) and he *personally* believed that while it was a likely candidate for helping with a wild-card virus like COVID-19 that it was a risky thing to prescribe/use indiscriminately, if not for the health of the patient, for the squeeze on the supply for the myriad other uses it IS highly vetted for in the third world. He seemed to believe that if COVID-19 demand took more than a minimal number of doses off the 3rd world supply (or raised the price), the net result would be not-a-good-thing by humanitarian standards.
If SoAfrica, for example, boosted Quercetin production to meet your presumed need for broad use there, then it may well be a good thing if not taken in the doses that my friend had to take (apparently) to beat Malaria down. He believe he still has residual effects from both Malaria (the illness) and Hyrdorxychloroquine (the cure) and wants to believe that he is overall better for having taken it, but mostly because he wants to believe that the docs were "doing their best", even if the cure did more damage than the illness. With that background I didn't have a problem with Trump taking the drug or even acknowledging it *might* be helpful, but I interpreted his endorsement as implying a "miracle cure" whilst paradoxically trying to dismiss any worries about the Virus itself and the lack of positive evidence the it was effective and the lack of negative evidence that the side-effects may be worse than the illness it was intended to relieve. His schtick on the topic was, for lack of a better term, "very Trumpian". That does not mean he was *dead wrong* about hydroxychloroquine... but imagine if he'd decided to dump all the support that went to vaccines into boosting production/delivery of hydroxychloroquine? Maybe South Africa will be a testbed for that strategy? Do you have any idea how extensively Quercetin is being used for COVID in South Africa? Do you know if it is also used as a general-purpose anti-viral for other viruses (as it apparently is in more equatorial regions) like Malaria. I just (re)read your post and realized you said "natural, over the counter" so it sounds like neither high-doses nor widely *prescribed* though maybe widely heralded/promoted? In any case, I hope that your over-the-counter wards are helpful to you and yours. I'm an anecdotal fan of Zinc/C for helping me with at least the symptoms of cold/flu even though I generally eschew all supplements/medication (my Luddite thing). I suppose I might dose with those if I had COVID symptoms or exposure... and assuming your Quercetin is low dose, maybe even that, as long as it didn't line Donald Trump's pockets of course... As inefficient as it is for every country/region to have a modesty different approach to a pandemic like this, I'm not inclined to vilify those who ended up "guessing wrong". It is easy to armchair quarterback (in hindsight) the decisions made in other regions of the world with significantly different circumstances. I'm guessing (but don't know) that South Africa's infection and death rates may be closer to Australia than India? I also don't know if your lack of vaccines is a global supply problem, a government policy to not pursue them as heavily, or some unexplained coincidence? On 5/6/21 2:23 PM, Pieter Steenekamp wrote: > */ is it true that the matter simply stands with the Hah-vud studies > retracted, and nothing more said? That doesn’t seem right. > /* > > I just don't know. > > I speculated that the topic was just way too politicized to get to the > bottom of it without spending serious time and effort on it and I > chose not to do that. > > On a personal note, we don't yet have vaccinations in South Africa, my > wife and I are each having daily doses of Quercetin, a natural > over-the-counter version of Hydroxychloroquine, and vitamin D and > Zinc and a couple of other immune boosters too. > > > > On Thu, 6 May 2021 at 21:46, <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > Thanks, Pieter, > > > > Interesting. As somebody who has followed the research, is it > true that the matter simply stands with the Hah-vud studies > retracted, and nothing more said? That doesn’t seem right. > > > > Nick > > > > Nick Thompson > > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > > https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ > <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> > > > > *From:* Friam <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> *On Behalf Of *Pieter Steenekamp > *Sent:* Thursday, May 6, 2021 1:12 PM > *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group > <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] FW: Covid-Lancet-PART-2 (002).doc > > > > I'm not particularly fond of Donald Trump, but the elephant in the > room is that Hydroxychloroquine became well-known after Trump > advocated it. At the time I followed and researched it a bit and I > came to the conclusion that both the mainstream media and the > medical industry were against Hydroxychloroquine mainly because > Trump actively advocated it. The Lancet saga certainly did not > influence me to change that conclusion. > > > > On Thu, 6 May 2021 at 19:52, Frank Wimberly <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > This does not seem interesting to me. The vaccines have been > demonstrated to be effective and safe to very large degrees > based on many millions of inoculations. Why should I care > about some suspect studies with small n. > > --- > Frank C. Wimberly > 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, > Santa Fe, NM 87505 > > 505 670-9918 > Santa Fe, NM > > > > On Thu, May 6, 2021, 11:33 AM <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > Dear Phellow Phriammers, > > > > I have noted that most of what I have written here of late > has been ignored, and that’s ok, actually. Usually, it is > the possibility that you MIGHT read what I write that > keeps me writing and, behaviorist to the last, writing is > what I need to do in order to think. > > > > But this situation is different. I really don’t know what > to think about Pavlovic’s > <https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Dragan-Pavlovic-4> > paper. There may have been some trouble with the cloud > version, so I have attached it to this message. > > > > So, this is a case where I really need some help. I > realize that you are all engaged in this excellent > correspondence about UBI, which has revealed all sorts of > “-ists” that I never thought were alive and well in the > world, let alone in this group. I would not interfere > with that for a second. But, could a few of you take a > look at his paper > <https://1drv.ms/w/s!AptIKbsAd7gjllccpq9yXXQ4hb2N?e=HCzjaV> > (very short, a commentary, actually). I think he is > actually a candidate for this group. He is an MD, Phd, > anaesthesiologist, retired in Paris, who has participated > in hundreds of scientific papers, who is passionate ( I > worry, perhaps sometimes a bit too passionate) about > dozens of different things and suspicious of everything. > He wants, for instance, to dig a gigantic tunnel to bring > large ships directly from the danube to the Mediterranean. > > > > I, of course, live in a bubble, but I don’t like to have > that fact thrust in my face as powerfully as when he > reveals to me that the two HAAA=VUD papers denouncing > Chloquoroquine were retracted a year ago, and I never > found out. I can’t get any sense of whether there has > been any attempt to revive them or to redo the original > clinical study that suggested HCQ’s efficacy against CoVid. > > > > Any little bit of help you could give me would be great. > > > > Nick > > > > Nick Thompson > > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > > https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ > <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> > > > > *From:* [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]> <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> > *Sent:* Wednesday, May 5, 2021 9:48 PM > *To:* 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group' > <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> > *Cc:* 'Prof David West' <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> > *Subject:* Covid-Lancet-PART-2 (002).doc > > > > Dear Colleagues, > > > > I attach a paper > <https://1drv.ms/w/s!AptIKbsAd7gjllccpq9yXXQ4hb2N?e=HCzjaV> > written by an internet acquaintance I made some years > back, Dragan Pavlovic. I am sending it along for two > reasons. First, it reveals (to me, at least) that the two > negative studies on Hydroxychloroquine use in > SARS-CoVid-19 treatment were based on unverified data and > were withdrawn by their authors almost immediately. (Have > the rest of you known this for the last year and not told > me? I cannot believe, after we pilloried poor Dave for > advocating for it, that he has not gloated about it. ) > Second, Pavlovic raises the intension/extension > distinction in the context of the interpretation of > scientific results and also questions Randomized Control > Trials as the "Gold Standard" for discovery. Thus, I think > he is a kindred spirit, being a bit of a grumpy contrarian > like many of us here. I have promised to forward any > comments you make to him, so be polite but speak truth. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Nick Nicholas Thompson > > Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology > > Clark University > > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > > https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ > <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > <http://bit.ly/virtualfriam> > un/subscribe > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > <http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com> > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > <http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/> > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > <http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/> > > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > <http://bit.ly/virtualfriam> > un/subscribe > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > <http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com> > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > <http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/> > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > <http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/> > > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > <http://bit.ly/virtualfriam> > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > <http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com> > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > <http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/> > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > <http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/> > > > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
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