What did Obama say in that last Correspondents’ Dinner speech? ~”I said at the start of my presidency that I hoped that the discourse in our politics would change. In hindsight I realize I should have been more specific.”
Eric > On Feb 10, 2021, at 2:38 PM, Frank Wimberly <[email protected]> wrote: > > I was warning you not to bring up spark plugs and other BS that made the > example lack causal sufficiency thereby muddying the water unhelpfully. I > guess the warning was too vague. > > --- > Frank C. Wimberly > 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, > Santa Fe, NM 87505 > > 505 670-9918 > Santa Fe, NM > > On Wed, Feb 10, 2021, 12:34 PM <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > So the presence and absence of spark Plugs screens off cart Starting from the > Gas tank and the Battery charge. To put in terms of ANOVA, there is no > additivity of variance in the effects of G, B, and P upon S. One could, of > course, achieve additivity by partitioning the variance into the various > interactions in G, B, and P’s effects upon (Pr S). Or is the analogy between > ANOVA and Currying completely without merit. > > > > This only demonstrates further that FRIWWMFTT. > > > > N > > > > Nick Thompson > > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ > <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwordpress.clarku.edu%2fnthompson%2f&c=E,1,8ZVHYJOxFQdqB408LncU-IHH7iW4m_6Fs-3BFVuX7zjWgDI8PHXJJgi575b7Bp95LJznJXUZbfqxFPlwPpC23OX9fH71wmhVpb0Jy_WKEDU,&typo=1> > > > From: Friam <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> On > Behalf Of Frank Wimberly > Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2021 1:15 PM > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] > PM-2017-MethodologicalBehaviorismCausalChainsandCausalForks(1).pdf > > > > Nick, > > > > Somehow I don't relate to the sandwich case. Is having ham and having eggs > different from having ham and eggs. > > > > Your second question may be related to the following: if A and B are both > causes of C then A and B are not independent given C. Let C be "car starts", > A be "gas in tank" and B be "battery charged". If you know there's gas in > the tank and you observe that the car starts then you infer whether the > battery is charged. There are numerous ways to object to this which are > irrelevant. "What if the spark plugs are missing?" Etc. > > > > Frank > > --- > Frank C. Wimberly > 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, > Santa Fe, NM 87505 > > 505 670-9918 > Santa Fe, NM > > > > On Wed, Feb 10, 2021, 11:50 AM <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > Thanks, Glen, > > You consistently give me thoughts to chew on. Your introduction of "point of > view' into the conversation is a "New Thought" for me, and I am grateful for > it. In particular, it makes apt the metaphor of screening off. So, let it > be the case that a third variable, C, also affects B. In that case, one > could not make predictions about B to A without knowing about C. Thus, C > screens off A from B. I think I get it. > > Nick > > Nick Thompson > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ > <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwordpress.clarku.edu%2fnthompson%2f&c=E,1,OrsxKfdI3LeRPM_qfSqe8Rl6y2adxLJFbibaCZXqeLfm3KZesrL7roha4_U23io45aSuSggnfgFo0RmN-WEbZYj1UcYhUALcKtOnoIYoyPG_GCA,&typo=1> > > -----Original Message----- > From: Friam <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> On > Behalf Of u?l? ??? > Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2021 12:00 PM > To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] > PM-2017-MethodologicalBehaviorismCausalChainsandCausalForks(1).pdf > > I think I have useful things to say about it. But who knows for sure? > > I regard this sort of screen as if *from* the present looking into the past. > From the perspective of the 3rd node, can you *see* the 1st node? Or can you > only see the 2nd node? (I think I alluded to this in my post about Barbour's > "Janus Point".) > > As to the meshed gears, as usual, it's useful to crack cause into multiple > meanings like agency vs material, formal, and final. But you can also adopt a > perspective. From the 2nd gear's perspective, the 1st gear is causing it to > move. From the 1st gear's perspective, you are causing it to move. And from a > multi-gear perspective, either you *or* the designer is causing the 2nd gear > to move. Scoping, scoping, scoping, scoping. > > > On 2/10/21 9:06 AM, [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > wrote: > > Hi, All, > > > > > > > > If any of you had any spare brain time, I am interested in the attached > > VERY SHORT > > <https://documentcloud.adobe.com/link/track?uri=urn:aaid:scds:US:a6e9c10b-06dc-4ea1-8ffa-d450df62489a > > > > <https://documentcloud.adobe.com/link/track?uri=urn:aaid:scds:US:a6e9c10b-06dc-4ea1-8ffa-d450df62489a>> > > article: > > > > > > > > I am struggling here with the idea of "screening off". Does it mean more > > or less than the following: Granted that, If I had ham, and I had eggs, I > > would have ham and eggs, having eggs screens off having ham from having ham > > and eggs? Screening off seems a very odd metaphor. Is it a term of art > > in logic? > > > > > > > > Also, a general problem I have with causality: My understanding of > > causality is that event A can cause event B if and only if A is > > independently known from B (an event cannot cause itself) AND occurs prior > > to B Now imagine two perfectly meshed gears, such that motion in one is > > instantly conveyed to the other. I turn gear A and gear B turns. Has the > > motion in A /caused/ the turning of B or has my turning of A caused the > > motion of B? With the gears, this may just seem like a fussy “in the > > limit” sort of question, but there seem to be other phenomena where it’s > > worth asking. Does the discharge of potential along the ionized (?) path > > CAUSE the lightning? > > > > > > > > I realize that the rest of you have spouses, dogs, cats, hobbies, and day > > jobs, but any off hand thoughts you have on these matters would be greatly > > appreciated. > > -- > ↙↙↙ uǝlƃ > > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriam&c=E,1,GsOWLPXJQPrmZYjjChycH0RqbFjLXxVjIS8JcjY4bpb0ZLSkXWfDOQgvyJVJ61Ks6equOs0CHaNUIAbS9AzImFveQroZLkk5rDEWtlBPqQM6NoBsljDmxA,,&typo=1> > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,0EoyvF4VOXOXRCQ6HWfXGVlC5Fqf5Mn6XF6u1LYvWNpDDrCKy852KrzvIjiaVupdGnZ8pjrxQ_qRchWCFnlJQAmIhJx75jYUAOUMKJYE6NIzUP8,&typo=1> > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,_NjX56BCDcKbbsvcQowm6R1HxbcV4-pJmSI3n8mqnEAIKNHv_kmDiYQmAwSaJrkqyJXo8VgK8Kc7Dft7MckaKNy1iAiQv7fcppwu7piAqYf0hhHN7Q,,&typo=1> > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > <http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/> > > > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriam&c=E,1,ye5KqgG7IqLr1jshnf4SDPWN_GSoAQBtH12fMBUUmGVOkn-Srl6C7Gtyj3imkM1y8GCGDbRzUXIm_etlBPQi7B1aj0YxgMHlG5zbUDNYBTFLDyFdsFrynmgw3epN&typo=1> > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,VZxRzeFFB19QFYqNCjRXQDDjI56alKp5ueBFqOUZ8ETtELtOZ-NAx8l6SmUo-RsepNlBjQN19l7QoKNH8j0XAIB7M25EzDQZYe0qT53R9Q,,&typo=1> > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,m2myzUj-4obvEmvjCWm3fg9VFXpAlLbIxZ-OsE-TDv_EqQugauwD1D9QPtTLCo1AVwGxHYk0vQyjwjuqF5W2zfPANGIQWZmF5al1e9IB3PE,&typo=1> > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > <http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/>- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... > -..-. .... . .-. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriam&c=E,1,7IuHIsLhOFzkU9fxrxGn-kUsPS3DdSzLYGfZdw0-gAx-salEmBsaFdX0w2McKR_Hx8VCLOKKjwTdwsQ8kGVX2KAvs189MYlnHgE-WKzgvjvk&typo=1> > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,-A-3H6imWmKLlqLRalCsqrJFBwgws1a4T4O7OnyXtLEcPJGCUhycQbTJjV-FgjO9VluT8VCNjT8YnvZ-2SiptEqb53cEE-4MyZywG8XHz3RDHS6RwoIT2EzwoQ,,&typo=1> > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,nFOSkTG_bu5iW_In0YOhTQUHfTnYRvIvIbBAGK4ztjrla3JmEdwEefcQOUQkW0BNZkAnBlcFyHNBAzBeG5HJFoBErw5Xv-P1zDlXqN6vpA3X&typo=1> > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > <http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/> > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > un/subscribe > https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,1kYqdSXpUDF7niDEu4A7oaeSnh-GhBN-L3KF2Q8eeOB0pTzzIFBG-evTqSpj0n476HlDnxBZF9ZgktUHW_Sl3kKTRHcwiFt7jr12AVhr8yEEvDnFhnY,&typo=1 > FRIAM-COMIC > https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,7DXpKFZhT86c1P3D77mvyGDoxd6pzkbVWsiYENktcVsMCWSL_rSrBdU2ovU43kYqYYPpOLeMYu1DI88iMD3FQjprFwlZK1JJCHKG0lyn-QPXD9vUvxLLYg,,&typo=1 > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
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