I was warning you not to bring up spark plugs and other BS that made the example lack causal sufficiency thereby muddying the water unhelpfully. I guess the warning was too vague.
--- Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, Santa Fe, NM 87505 505 670-9918 Santa Fe, NM On Wed, Feb 10, 2021, 12:34 PM <[email protected]> wrote: > So the presence and absence of spark Plugs screens off cart Starting from > the Gas tank and the Battery charge. To put in terms of ANOVA, there is no > additivity of variance in the effects of G, B, and P upon S. One could, of > course, achieve additivity by partitioning the variance into the various > interactions in G, B, and P’s effects upon (Pr S). Or is the analogy > between ANOVA and Currying completely without merit. > > > > This only demonstrates further that FRIWWMFTT. > > > > N > > > > Nick Thompson > > [email protected] > > https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ > > > > *From:* Friam <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Frank Wimberly > *Sent:* Wednesday, February 10, 2021 1:15 PM > *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group < > [email protected]> > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] > PM-2017-MethodologicalBehaviorismCausalChainsandCausalForks(1).pdf > > > > Nick, > > > > Somehow I don't relate to the sandwich case. Is having ham and having > eggs different from having ham and eggs. > > > > Your second question may be related to the following: if A and B are both > causes of C then A and B are not independent given C. Let C be "car > starts", A be "gas in tank" and B be "battery charged". If you know > there's gas in the tank and you observe that the car starts then you infer > whether the battery is charged. There are numerous ways to object to this > which are irrelevant. "What if the spark plugs are missing?" Etc. > > > > Frank > > --- > Frank C. Wimberly > 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, > Santa Fe, NM 87505 > > 505 670-9918 > Santa Fe, NM > > > > On Wed, Feb 10, 2021, 11:50 AM <[email protected]> wrote: > > Thanks, Glen, > > You consistently give me thoughts to chew on. Your introduction of "point > of view' into the conversation is a "New Thought" for me, and I am grateful > for it. In particular, it makes apt the metaphor of screening off. So, > let it be the case that a third variable, C, also affects B. In that case, > one could not make predictions about B to A without knowing about C. > Thus, C screens off A from B. I think I get it. > > Nick > > Nick Thompson > [email protected] > https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: Friam <[email protected]> On Behalf Of u?l? ??? > Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2021 12:00 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] > PM-2017-MethodologicalBehaviorismCausalChainsandCausalForks(1).pdf > > I think I have useful things to say about it. But who knows for sure? > > I regard this sort of screen as if *from* the present looking into the > past. From the perspective of the 3rd node, can you *see* the 1st node? Or > can you only see the 2nd node? (I think I alluded to this in my post about > Barbour's "Janus Point".) > > As to the meshed gears, as usual, it's useful to crack cause into multiple > meanings like agency vs material, formal, and final. But you can also adopt > a perspective. From the 2nd gear's perspective, the 1st gear is causing it > to move. From the 1st gear's perspective, you are causing it to move. And > from a multi-gear perspective, either you *or* the designer is causing the > 2nd gear to move. Scoping, scoping, scoping, scoping. > > > On 2/10/21 9:06 AM, [email protected] wrote: > > Hi, All, > > > > > > > > If any of you had any spare brain time, I am interested in the attached > VERY SHORT < > https://documentcloud.adobe.com/link/track?uri=urn:aaid:scds:US:a6e9c10b-06dc-4ea1-8ffa-d450df62489a> > article: > > > > > > > > I am struggling here with the idea of "screening off". Does it mean > more or less than the following: Granted that, If I had ham, and I had > eggs, I would have ham and eggs, having eggs screens off having ham from > having ham and eggs? Screening off seems a very odd metaphor. Is it a > term of art in logic? > > > > > > > > Also, a general problem I have with causality: My understanding of > causality is that event A can cause event B if and only if A is > independently known from B (an event cannot cause itself) AND occurs prior > to B Now imagine two perfectly meshed gears, such that motion in one is > instantly conveyed to the other. I turn gear A and gear B turns. Has the > motion in A /caused/ the turning of B or has my turning of A caused the > motion of B? With the gears, this may just seem like a fussy “in the > limit” sort of question, but there seem to be other phenomena where it’s > worth asking. Does the discharge of potential along the ionized (?) path > CAUSE the lightning? > > > > > > > > I realize that the rest of you have spouses, dogs, cats, hobbies, and > day jobs, but any off hand thoughts you have on these matters would be > greatly appreciated. > > -- > ↙↙↙ uǝlƃ > > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > > > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >
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