Do not go gently into that good night. --- Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, Santa Fe, NM 87505
505 670-9918 Santa Fe, NM On Tue, Dec 8, 2020, 1:29 PM Frank Wimberly <[email protected]> wrote: > I like the image of two old men on their deathbed shaking their fists. > > --- > Frank C. Wimberly > 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, > Santa Fe, NM 87505 > > 505 670-9918 > Santa Fe, NM > > On Tue, Dec 8, 2020, 1:17 PM Marcus Daniels <[email protected]> wrote: > >> It amused me that you two were so invested in this argument (that we’ve >> witnessed over the years directly and tangentially), that on your deathbeds >> you’d be shaking your fists about it. Obviously it was not “abuse”. It >> seems silly to me because if one want to understand the functioning of the >> brain, one would experiment on it like Hubel and Wiesel did, and like >> Neuralink is poised to do. >> >> >> >> *From:* Friam <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Frank Wimberly >> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 8, 2020 11:45 AM >> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group < >> [email protected]> >> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Please change the damned thread >> >> >> >> This is not about lumbago but may not be of general interest. Please >> read a little and then stop if it is not a topic that you care about. >> >> >> >> I feel like writing a little about the history of my friendship with Nick >> in response to the accusation that I was abusive to him. During the first >> year of my studies in the PhD program in psychology at Carnegie Mellon I >> took a course in cognitive processes. One of the themes of that course was >> the failure of behaviorism. That approach was described to us as an early >> 20th century effort to explain all behavior in terms of learning and that >> the result was a realization that that was not possible. After a year I >> became frustrated with the uncertainties and ambiguitied of psychology and >> I left that program and went into a PhD program in math and computer >> science. >> >> >> >> >> >> When I met Nick he told me he was a radical behaviorist I asked him what >> he meant by that. And my recollection is that he said that he thought that >> people don't have minds or consciousness and that they infer their feelings >> and beliefs from their behavior. I found this to be anathema because to me >> my consciousness is the first thing I know and the only thing I know with >> certainty. Nick said aha you're a Cartesian in a way that implied that he >> could dismiss my ideas on topic of consciousness for example. After >> extensive arguments my interpretation is that we gave up on the topic. >> >> >> >> We played many games of chess got together with our wives and friends and >> generally had an enjoyable friendship. We cooperated on the Santa Fe >> Complex project and we both attended friam reliably and for many years. I >> attended a seminar that he organized in which we focused on the book >> Feelings by James Laird, a colleague of Nick's at Clark University. That >> book argues that we know our feelings by observing our own behavior a >> position that I found odd but I read the book. I usually gave Nick a ride >> to St John's every Friday morning which gave us an opportunity to visit >> privately before joining the meeting. >> >> >> >> Before the alleged abuse Nick had told me that he had a negative covid >> test and was waiting the results of the more rigorous test. He then >> mentioned Bonnet's Syndrome and I wondered how a person who doesn't believe >> in mind explains hallucinations so I asked him. I knew he had been feeling >> badly but he did not say that he was suffering from Covid-19 nor from >> Bonnet's Syndrome. Maybe the latter was implicit in his raising the >> topic. If so, I apologize again. >> >> >> >> Nick my remember some of the events I describe differently. >> >> >> >> Frank >> >> --- >> Frank C. Wimberly >> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, >> Santa Fe, NM 87505 >> >> 505 670-9918 >> Santa Fe, NM >> >> >> >> On Tue, Dec 8, 2020, 10:20 AM <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Colleaugues, >> >> >> >> There are many of us long in the tooth on this list, and I think we >> should adopt some best practices lest the intellectual life of the list >> become drowned in laments about lumbago. In retrospect, I wish I had >> informed one of you privately, asked that person to briefly inform the >> attendees when I went missing at vFriam, and to be a point person to any >> who would persue the matter further. >> >> >> >> I tried, unsuccessfully, to bridge to the less personal topic to >> Bonnett's Syndrome, which as Frank knew well, presented some problems to me >> philosophically. Some of you -- perhaps many -- are familiar with >> psychodelic experiences and all of you presumably with dreaming. The >> enormous inventiveness and creativity of these experiences, their complex >> structures, and blooming buzzing confusions, their wildly improbable >> transitions, are a challenge to any poor monist. Where the hell does the >> information come from? >> >> >> >> It seems to me that my experience is but a flea on the behemoth of my >> brain. I am not inclined to go digging in there, but I can see why some of >> you are. >> >> >> >> Nick >> >> >> >> Nicholas Thompson >> >> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology >> >> Clark University >> >> [email protected] >> >> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Friam <[email protected]> On Behalf Of u?l? ??? >> Sent: Tuesday, December 8, 2020 10:20 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Nick's Recovery >> >> >> >> Nicely circular! You don't have to know/believe the meaning of your >> words, for those words to have meaning. I'm particularly fond of how >> abusers will say something abhorrent, then act all surprised when victims >> take offense. The abuser often takes the stance that they were simply >> joking and the snowflake should grow a thicker skin. I'm as guilty as the >> rest. >> >> >> >> On 12/8/20 8:15 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: >> >> > I was kidding, of course.. believing the topic to be devoid of meaning, >> and so more absurd than abusive. >> >> > >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> >> > From: Friam <[email protected]> On Behalf Of u?l? ??? >> >> > Sent: Tuesday, December 8, 2020 8:09 AM >> >> > To: [email protected] >> >> > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Nick's Recovery >> >> > >> >> > It's important, even/especially for long-term partners, to reflect on >> possibly abusive habits. Even if the abused and the abuser *agree* that the >> habit isn't intentional abuse, an outsider will often *rightly* identify >> the habit as abusive. >> >> > >> >> > On 12/7/20 6:23 PM, Frank Wimberly wrote: >> >> >> If you agree that was mean please accept my sincere apologies. I am >> hoping that you didn't find it so. Marcus hasn't been privy to the >> hundreds of frank, sometimes humorous, in-person exchanges between us over >> the last 15+ years and I meant it in that spirit. >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> ↙↙↙ uǝlƃ >> >> >> >> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >> >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> >> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe >> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> >> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >> >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> >> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> >> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> >
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