Well, that *system*, {one, person, genetic sequence} contains an endogenous
theory (or a set of possible theories). If you slice out the {one} doing the
operating, then you lose the theory.
On 11/30/20 4:22 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> So if one is given a person (or a rat) and a genetic sequence that animal
> amounts to an endogenous theory?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Friam <[email protected]> On Behalf Of u?l? ???
> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 4:14 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] New ways of understanding the world
>
> Well, sure. But just because the theory is endogenous, doesn't imply that
> theory does not *exist*, nor that it's not *prior* to the launch. So, even in
> that case, Nick's correct that the theory (or a spanning kernel of it) exists
> before-hand.
>
> On 11/30/20 4:06 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
>> Once one figures out how the monitor reacts then one can see how certain
>> registers change as a result of changes in instruction sequences. The
>> relationship of a perturbation to an outcome is simple, learnable and
>> relatively unambiguous for a typical microprocessor. Assembly of
>> subroutines follow the same principles. (One can observe a stack with
>> enough experimentation.) The language is learned (not given) and the
>> axioms implied by the structure of the machine. The goal of copying is sort
>> of beside the point.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Friam <[email protected]> On Behalf Of u?l? ???
>> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 3:51 PM
>> To: [email protected]
>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] New ways of understanding the world
>>
>> But if we use the word "theory" in its minimal sense of "a language and a
>> set of axioms", then your "to be copied so that it does the same thing" *is*
>> a theory, albeit a different theory (or containing theory) for one that
>> would treat the [un]copyable application over and above the act of copying.
>> What would be interesting would be the *number* and diversity of theories
>> validatable/executable against any given set of tokens.
>>
>> On 11/30/20 3:33 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
>>> I spent a fair amount of my youth disassembling boot procedures of various
>>> copy protection schemes. There one is given a list of numbers that
>>> bootstrap an operating system and an application. A small portion of that
>>> list of numbers is relevant to preventing that list of numbers from being
>>> copied from one media to another. It wasn’t really necessary to have a
>>> theory of the application, generally, to understand how to change the
>>> numbers to make that list copyable. If one had no theory of a computer
>>> instruction set or of an operating system, but was just given a disk and
>>> the goal of copying it to get the computer to do the same thing when the
>>> copied disk was put in to the disk drive instead of the original disk, it
>>> is possible to learn everything that is needed to learn which numbers to
>>> change. No oscilloscope needed, no theory of solid state physics, etc.
>>> Ok, maybe one reference manual. Biology is the same, but without a
>>> concise reference manual.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Friam <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of
>>> *[email protected]
>>> *Sent:* Monday, November 30, 2020 1:25 PM
>>> *To:* 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group'
>>> <[email protected]>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] New ways of understanding the world
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> All,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I feel like this relates to a discussion held during Nerd Hour at the end
>>> of last Friday’s vfriam. I was arguing that given, say, a string of
>>> numbers, and no information external to that string, that no AI could
>>> detect “order” unless it already possessed a theory of what order is. I
>>> found the discussion distressing because I thought the point was trivial
>>> but all the smart people in the conversation were arguing against me.
--
↙↙↙ uǝlƃ
- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. .
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam
un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
