Tom https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/index.html
On Sat, Sep 12, 2020 at 10:00 PM Tom Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > Frank, do you have some pointers on the MMWR? > Thanks, Tom > > On Sat, Sep 12, 2020, 7:35 PM Frank Wimberly <[email protected]> wrote: > >> It has become known today that the MMWR has been altered for political >> reasons. At least they got caught. >> >> --- >> Frank C. Wimberly >> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, >> Santa Fe, NM 87505 >> >> 505 670-9918 >> Santa Fe, NM >> >> On Sat, Sep 12, 2020, 5:11 PM Marcus Daniels <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> It is the reactive grievance culture that I think needs to be >>> attenuated. Run some diagnostics, analyze, reflect. Or at least find >>> someone new to talk to. Push some different information through that >>> soggy wetware. Appreciate people that are trying to do their job. >>> Consider the possibility that individuals (and that means you, Joe Moron) >>> don't really matter in the big scheme of things. And so on. If nothing >>> else just STFU for a minute, would you? I can totally see the Rick Gates >>> type people: Everyone is guilty and unworthy, so the only thing left to do >>> grab and handful of cash and walk away. >>> >>> How many dozens of times have I been told to lower the dimensionality of >>> what I am trying to communicate up the management chain? If managers can't >>> grasp a complicated story, the worker bees and especially the Trumper types >>> certainly won't get it either. In my mind democracy is more about >>> defining what is worthy about civilization and culture and finding basic >>> some basic consensus about who we want to be. If that isn't possible, >>> then let's take off the gloves and get to it, you know? The business of >>> running things for the most part has to be delegated, just like almost >>> every service and product we use is delegated to others. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Friam <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Steve Smith >>> Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 3:17 PM >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] flu versus COVID >>> >>> Without picking directly on Dave, or using him as a proxy for or maybe >>> just a whipping boy for the folks who continue to imagine that having >>> Donald Trump and his gang of openly sycophantic and corrupt supporters in >>> his cabinet and in Congress is actually a *healthy* thing for this country, >>> I think the question of whether humans in general and US Citizens at this >>> time, are capable of anything outside of an A) Mobocracy; or B) Oligarchy >>> thinly disguised as a Representative Democracy. >>> >>> I've been guilty of being a very poor voter-citizen by one standard or >>> another and order 1/3 or more of my fellow citizens probably have a story >>> where I am a total moron/idiot because I don't agree with one or more of >>> their trigger-issues. >>> >>> And talk about persuasion/governance-by-fear: As a registered DTR >>> (declines to respond == independent) voter I've been getting a barrage of >>> nasty garbage mail about the presidential election from the Republican >>> Party of New Mexico... maybe they don't waste the postage on registered >>> Democrats? Mary doesn't get these. You can imagine the crap they insert >>> into their imagery and verbage, but if I didn't have any other source of >>> information (or more to the point, primary evidence of Biden and his >>> allies' record and public demeanor), I'd think he (and >>> they) are everything just short of child molesters who are in the >>> streets themselves beating up cops with their own night-sticks, and that >>> the fires in Oregon are being started by them personally in Portland and >>> blowing the embers out into the forests (that Republicans would rake into >>> safety if Democrats would let them). The photos are perspective >>> foreshortened and blue caste to make you feel like the figures shown (e.g. >>> Biden, Bernie, Kamala, AOC) are vampires looming over you the way Trump >>> stalked and loomed over Clinton at the debates. >>> >>> I don't know *any* Republicans who are afraid of COVID... well... except >>> for my hypochondriac sister and family who seem to have slowly come around >>> to have a perspective that aligns pretty well with that of the Dems, yet >>> very well may still help (try to) Vote Donald and his cronies right back >>> into power (just because?). Sturgis the community was only 60% against >>> holding the annual HD/Trump rally there and only about 10-20% of the usual >>> attendees declined this year. That doesn't sound like fear to me. I >>> don't hear Biden's campaign chanting "Lock them up!" even though it seems >>> likely that The entire Trump family , his staff (present and deprecated) >>> and some of his cabinet might well be subject to criminal charges without >>> the current obfuscation, misdirection, and direct obstruction the >>> (implied/implicit?) power of the office of the President seems to allow >>> for, hiding the evidence. >>> >>> I *do* think that a solid 51% up to 60% of the population *are* very >>> scared at the quality and quantity of damage to the "America" he promised >>> to make "Great Again" if he gets another 4 years... The Trumpsters like >>> to throw out "Trump Derangement Syndrome" left and right (and Left and >>> Right) in the attempt to characterize anyone who is offended by anything >>> (much less everything) Trump does. >>> >>> My enemy's enemies are not my friends, but it IS heartening to see the >>> significant backlash against Trumpism by many non-liberal, non-Democrat >>> factions. The Lincoln Project might be the most well organized/funded. >>> THEY are throwing fear and loathing at Trump... and I"m sure plenty of >>> LIberals/Democrats love seeing that... and I suppose I'm just glad I don't >>> have to get my own hands dirty (possibly?) overstating Trumps outrageous >>> behaviour. >>> >>> The next 2 months (and 2.5 beyond) will surely prove to be interesting... >>> >>> - Steve >>> >>> On 9/12/20 12:42 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote: >>> > When the populace won't tolerate this the populace won't get this. >>> But mostly people are morons. >>> > >>> > -----Original Message----- >>> > From: Friam <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Prof David West >>> > Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 11:33 AM >>> > To: [email protected] >>> > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] flu versus COVID >>> > >>> > Nothing in my post was intended to malign Fauci, nor attack his >>> credibility. I did attempt to call him on a specific mistake (one he may >>> have later corrected). He is not among the "powers that be." >>> > >>> > I totally stand by my accusation that "governance by fear" seems to >>> have become the default for setting policy — fear of pornography to >>> justify repressive Web policies; fear of drugs to justify repressive >>> regulation on use; fear of crime to justify militarization of police; fear >>> of WMD to justify Iraq; fear of terror to justify TSA, fear of extinction >>> to justify carbon regulation; fear of COVID to justify lock down. >>> > >>> > I have a real problem with this trend. One, it denigrates and devalues >>> the populace as too dumb to understand the real issues, the messiness of >>> incomplete but increasing knowledge, and the complexity and provisionality >>> of solutions; two, any error, however minor, has the power to call into >>> question the whole; and three it is ultimately self-defeating. >>> > >>> > davew >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > On Sat, Sep 12, 2020, at 10:42 AM, glen∉ℂ wrote: >>> >> Never ascribe malice (or governance by fear) when incompetence will >>> >> suffice. -- paraphrased from some pithy archetype somewhere sometime. >>> >> >>> >> I was totally with you until the last 2 paragraphs, though I haven't >>> >> checked your facts. In my posts about "credibility", I tried to lay >>> >> out the idea that someone like Fauci is NOT properly labeled >>> >> [in]credible because of any single act/statement or even the truth >>> >> status of one or several acts/statements. Credibility comes from >>> >> consistent *care*, including revisiting things later and making >>> >> attempts to abut or correct previous acts/statements. >>> >> >>> >> Fauci shows such care. Therefore, Fauci is credible, even if he's >>> made mistakes. >>> >> >>> >> When you talk about ruling through fear, the real culprit is, as >>> >> EricS pointed out, the political pressure on people like Fauci to >>> >> render opinions *aligned* with some party line. To accuse Fauci of >>> >> such in light of the recent news from Woodward's book and the >>> >> pressure on CDC rank and file is disinformation. You're focus on the >>> >> victim makes your post incredible disinformation, even if (or >>> >> especially if) the first part of your post is factual. It's a typical >>> >> abuse of facts to foster a false narrative. >>> >> >>> >> But it's also important to realize we're all, always, susceptible to >>> >> such faulty reasoning. Attempts to be diligent and correct in such is >>> >> the source of credibility. I was once accused of being a spammer >>> >> because I posted too much, even though my accuser admitted the >>> >> *content* of my posts were on topic and not spam, the very volume was >>> >> offensive to him. This is yet another example of normal people's >>> >> small appetite for verbosity. Pithiness, pseudo-profound bullshit, >>> >> and false narratives are all aspects of the same beast. It's >>> >> impossible to harden ourselves to such risk without holing up in our >>> >> echo-chamber dungeons, surrounded by others who've "jumped over the >>> >> bar" to be included in our in-group. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> On 9/12/20 7:44 AM, Prof David West wrote: >>> >>> Sloppy reporting, and sloppy pronouncements — yes, you Dr. Fauci — >>> have contaminated the discussion about COVID and appropriate responses. >>> Specifically with regard equating or improperly substituting IFR with CFR. >>> >>> >>> >>> IFR = infection fatality rate >>> >>> CFR = case fatality rate >>> >>> >>> >>> A "case"requires symptoms. >>> >>> >>> >>> Seasonal flu has an IFR of 0.1% and a CFR of 2-3% >>> >>> >>> >>> COVID has an IFR of 1.0% [initially WHO and CDC stated a higher >>> >>> percent] and a CFR of 2-3% >>> >>> >>> >>> For whatever reason, Dr Fauci and other official statements have >>> compared COVID's CFR to the flu's IFR to assert the "deadliness" of the >>> disease and to justify draconian measures. >>> >>> >>> >>> Naysayers, compare CFR to CFR to assert that COVID is no more deadly >>> than the flu. They are correct. With the "TRUTH" on their side, they rail >>> against the lock down. >>> >>> >>> >>> There is a justification for social distancing and masks in the >>> difference between IFR and IFR coupled with the higher infection rate of >>> COVID and the flu( a lot of flu immunity exists), plus the "infectious >>> phase" of 12 days (COVID) instead of 2 (flu). >>> >>> >>> >>> In my opinion the "powers that be" have such a low opinion of the >>> average intelligence of the populace that they misrepresent the data in >>> order to scare the crap out of people in order to get them to comply with >>> directives instead of making the reasonable and correct, but more nuanced >>> and complicated, factual argument for their policies. >>> >>> >>> >>> Governance by fear seems to be standard operating procedure these >>> days. 9-11 yielded the TSA abomination (expensive, ineffective and >>> annoying). Can't wait to see what COVID inflicts — especially with the talk >>> of "forced vaccinations" I have heard bandied about. >>> >> >>> >> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >>> >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn >>> >> GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe >>> >> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>> >> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >>> >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>> >> >>> > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >>> > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn >>> > GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe >>> > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>> > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >>> > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>> > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >>> > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn >>> > GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe >>> > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>> > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >>> > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>> > >>> >>> >>> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe >>> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >>> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >>> FRIAM-COMIC <http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/FRIAM-COMIC> >>> http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>> >> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > -- Frank Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz Santa Fe, NM 87505 505 670-9918
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