It seems that it would be good to get the MMWR or Mortality and Morbidity Weekly Report.
Highly regarded by epidemiologists according to one of the experts on CNN. --- Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, Santa Fe, NM 87505 505 670-9918 Santa Fe, NM On Sat, Sep 12, 2020, 4:17 PM Steve Smith <[email protected]> wrote: > Without picking directly on Dave, or using him as a proxy for or maybe > just a whipping boy for the folks who continue to imagine that having > Donald Trump and his gang of openly sycophantic and corrupt supporters > in his cabinet and in Congress is actually a *healthy* thing for this > country, I think the question of whether humans in general and US > Citizens at this time, are capable of anything outside of an A) > Mobocracy; or B) Oligarchy thinly disguised as a Representative > Democracy. > > I've been guilty of being a very poor voter-citizen by one standard or > another and order 1/3 or more of my fellow citizens probably have a > story where I am a total moron/idiot because I don't agree with one or > more of their trigger-issues. > > And talk about persuasion/governance-by-fear: As a registered DTR > (declines to respond == independent) voter I've been getting a barrage > of nasty garbage mail about the presidential election from the > Republican Party of New Mexico... maybe they don't waste the postage on > registered Democrats? Mary doesn't get these. You can imagine the > crap they insert into their imagery and verbage, but if I didn't have > any other source of information (or more to the point, primary evidence > of Biden and his allies' record and public demeanor), I'd think he (and > they) are everything just short of child molesters who are in the > streets themselves beating up cops with their own night-sticks, and that > the fires in Oregon are being started by them personally in Portland and > blowing the embers out into the forests (that Republicans would rake > into safety if Democrats would let them). The photos are perspective > foreshortened and blue caste to make you feel like the figures shown > (e.g. Biden, Bernie, Kamala, AOC) are vampires looming over you the way > Trump stalked and loomed over Clinton at the debates. > > I don't know *any* Republicans who are afraid of COVID... well... except > for my hypochondriac sister and family who seem to have slowly come > around to have a perspective that aligns pretty well with that of the > Dems, yet very well may still help (try to) Vote Donald and his cronies > right back into power (just because?). Sturgis the community was only > 60% against holding the annual HD/Trump rally there and only about > 10-20% of the usual attendees declined this year. That doesn't sound > like fear to me. I don't hear Biden's campaign chanting "Lock them > up!" even though it seems likely that The entire Trump family , his > staff (present and deprecated) and some of his cabinet might well be > subject to criminal charges without the current obfuscation, > misdirection, and direct obstruction the (implied/implicit?) power of > the office of the President seems to allow for, hiding the evidence. > > I *do* think that a solid 51% up to 60% of the population *are* very > scared at the quality and quantity of damage to the "America" he > promised to make "Great Again" if he gets another 4 years... The > Trumpsters like to throw out "Trump Derangement Syndrome" left and right > (and Left and Right) in the attempt to characterize anyone who is > offended by anything (much less everything) Trump does. > > My enemy's enemies are not my friends, but it IS heartening to see the > significant backlash against Trumpism by many non-liberal, non-Democrat > factions. The Lincoln Project might be the most well > organized/funded. THEY are throwing fear and loathing at Trump... and > I"m sure plenty of LIberals/Democrats love seeing that... and I suppose > I'm just glad I don't have to get my own hands dirty (possibly?) > overstating Trumps outrageous behaviour. > > The next 2 months (and 2.5 beyond) will surely prove to be interesting... > > - Steve > > On 9/12/20 12:42 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > > When the populace won't tolerate this the populace won't get this. But > mostly people are morons. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Friam <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Prof David West > > Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 11:33 AM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] flu versus COVID > > > > Nothing in my post was intended to malign Fauci, nor attack his > credibility. I did attempt to call him on a specific mistake (one he may > have later corrected). He is not among the "powers that be." > > > > I totally stand by my accusation that "governance by fear" seems to have > become the default for setting policy — fear of pornography to justify > repressive Web policies; fear of drugs to justify repressive regulation on > use; fear of crime to justify militarization of police; fear of WMD to > justify Iraq; fear of terror to justify TSA, fear of extinction to justify > carbon regulation; fear of COVID to justify lock down. > > > > I have a real problem with this trend. One, it denigrates and devalues > the populace as too dumb to understand the real issues, the messiness of > incomplete but increasing knowledge, and the complexity and provisionality > of solutions; two, any error, however minor, has the power to call into > question the whole; and three it is ultimately self-defeating. > > > > davew > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Sep 12, 2020, at 10:42 AM, glen∉ℂ wrote: > >> Never ascribe malice (or governance by fear) when incompetence will > >> suffice. -- paraphrased from some pithy archetype somewhere sometime. > >> > >> I was totally with you until the last 2 paragraphs, though I haven't > >> checked your facts. In my posts about "credibility", I tried to lay > >> out the idea that someone like Fauci is NOT properly labeled > >> [in]credible because of any single act/statement or even the truth > >> status of one or several acts/statements. Credibility comes from > >> consistent *care*, including revisiting things later and making > >> attempts to abut or correct previous acts/statements. > >> > >> Fauci shows such care. Therefore, Fauci is credible, even if he's made > mistakes. > >> > >> When you talk about ruling through fear, the real culprit is, as EricS > >> pointed out, the political pressure on people like Fauci to render > >> opinions *aligned* with some party line. To accuse Fauci of such in > >> light of the recent news from Woodward's book and the pressure on CDC > >> rank and file is disinformation. You're focus on the victim makes your > >> post incredible disinformation, even if (or especially if) the first > >> part of your post is factual. It's a typical abuse of facts to foster > >> a false narrative. > >> > >> But it's also important to realize we're all, always, susceptible to > >> such faulty reasoning. Attempts to be diligent and correct in such is > >> the source of credibility. I was once accused of being a spammer > >> because I posted too much, even though my accuser admitted the > >> *content* of my posts were on topic and not spam, the very volume was > >> offensive to him. This is yet another example of normal people's small > >> appetite for verbosity. Pithiness, pseudo-profound bullshit, and false > >> narratives are all aspects of the same beast. It's impossible to > >> harden ourselves to such risk without holing up in our echo-chamber > >> dungeons, surrounded by others who've "jumped over the bar" to be > >> included in our in-group. > >> > >> > >> On 9/12/20 7:44 AM, Prof David West wrote: > >>> Sloppy reporting, and sloppy pronouncements — yes, you Dr. Fauci — > have contaminated the discussion about COVID and appropriate responses. > Specifically with regard equating or improperly substituting IFR with CFR. > >>> > >>> IFR = infection fatality rate > >>> CFR = case fatality rate > >>> > >>> A "case"requires symptoms. > >>> > >>> Seasonal flu has an IFR of 0.1% and a CFR of 2-3% > >>> > >>> COVID has an IFR of 1.0% [initially WHO and CDC stated a higher > >>> percent] and a CFR of 2-3% > >>> > >>> For whatever reason, Dr Fauci and other official statements have > compared COVID's CFR to the flu's IFR to assert the "deadliness" of the > disease and to justify draconian measures. > >>> > >>> Naysayers, compare CFR to CFR to assert that COVID is no more deadly > than the flu. They are correct. With the "TRUTH" on their side, they rail > against the lock down. > >>> > >>> There is a justification for social distancing and masks in the > difference between IFR and IFR coupled with the higher infection rate of > COVID and the flu( a lot of flu immunity exists), plus the "infectious > phase" of 12 days (COVID) instead of 2 (flu). > >>> > >>> In my opinion the "powers that be" have such a low opinion of the > average intelligence of the populace that they misrepresent the data in > order to scare the crap out of people in order to get them to comply with > directives instead of making the reasonable and correct, but more nuanced > and complicated, factual argument for their policies. > >>> > >>> Governance by fear seems to be standard operating procedure these > days. 9-11 yielded the TSA abomination (expensive, ineffective and > annoying). Can't wait to see what COVID inflicts — especially with the talk > of "forced vaccinations" I have heard bandied about. > >> > >> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn > >> GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe > >> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > >> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > >> > > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > > > > > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC <http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/FRIAM-COMIC> > http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >
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