Sarbajit, I appreciate your perspective. I didn't realize that India's constitution declares it to be a socialist state. Perhaps India could be cited more often as an example of socialism actually working in an advanced democracy, alongside capitalism.
On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 5:00 PM Sarbajit Roy <sroy...@gmail.com> wrote: > Gary > > Actually I agree with you to a considerable extent. > > Let us consider Edward's book, On Amazon-India his book (the 7th edn) is > available to us at a Kindle price of approx $9.50. Amazon sells the same > Kindle book in China at $45 and at $155+ for Kindle in the USA. > > What does this suggest to you ? For me it's that the authors are not > making the profits - Jeff Bezos &Co. do > > Now to come back to the question of why prices in India are affordable, > it's because we have (had ?) a few activist judges who ensured that India's > constitutional status as a *socialist* state means the needs of the many > (parasites ?) takes priority over the profits of the producers (creators). > > The prices of most life-saving *quality* drugs in India are probably > 1/20th of what you would pay in the States. That's because the same court > enforced our nation's sovereign rights under TRIPS/CUTS/WTO agreements etc > . When I read about poor people in USA not being able to afford their next > insulin shot because it's so darn expensive, you may like to know that a 30 > shot insulin Flexpen costs about $5 while the same manufacturer sells the > identical pen for 20 times the price in New York. > > Sarbajit > > On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 6:09 AM Gary Schiltz <g...@naturesvisualarts.com> > wrote: > >> No offense to the government of your country, but just because its courts >> have judged it to be legal, doesn't make it right. Of course "right" is a >> subjective, moral concept, and I hasten to add that morality is relative >> and personal. Additionally, I don't know how subject other countries are to >> the pronouncements of a particular country's judgments. I'll leave that to >> the United Nations. But in the case of copyrights, my own view of what is >> right is that the availability for copying of material should ideally be in >> the hands of the author. My two cents worth. >> >> On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 7:11 PM Sarbajit Roy <sroy...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> I got your book from here >>> >>> https://www.pdfdrive.com/interactive-computer-graphics-a-top-down-approach-with-webgl-edward-angel-and-dave-d38281420.html >>> >>> The Indian judgment is clear, Reproduction is limited to a copy which >>> the teacher/institute has LEGALLY purchased. >>> >>> There are other judgments from the same court directing that thousands >>> of infringing movie piracy websites (and their whack-a-mole clones) are >>> blocked in India for copyright violation and harm caused to producers. >>> >>> https://globalfreedomofexpression.columbia.edu/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/Utv_Software_Communication_Ltd._..._vs_1337X.To_And_Ors_on_10_April_2019-1.pdf >>> >>> Sarbajit >>> >>> On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 5:17 AM Edward Angel <an...@cs.unm.edu> wrote: >>> >>>> Thanks but the story is more complex. >>>> >>>> What transpired is in retrospect somewhat amusing. I received an email >>>> from someone at a university that was using the book asking if I knew there >>>> was a ps file on the web of the whole book. I checked it out, contacted the >>>> instructor who had it taken down. I had no idea how anyone had obtained a >>>> perfect copy of the book. Even during copyediting, I never was given access >>>> to a final ps version with even the typesetting marks. My editor started a >>>> big investigation at Pearson to see who had violated security during >>>> production only to find out after weeks that the people at Pearson who >>>> dealt with accessibility issues were sending out the file to every school >>>> that adopted the book (at the time around 200 just in the US). >>>> >>>> What is odd to me is that the last time I checked libgen.io, which was >>>> a while ago, the version there was not a ps version put a pdf in which you >>>> could use the TOC interactively so I figured it was the kindle version >>>> which my editor, who had become somewhat expert at this, showed me how easy >>>> it is to get the kindle version. Apparently what is the the situation now >>>> is that the ps version is libgen.is so someone else must have uploaded >>>> it. >>>> >>>> The material on the Indian decision on respect to fair use was very >>>> interesting. I was familiar with the fair use policies in the U.S. and the >>>> U.K. In spirit, they are the same. However, the problem is not fair use but >>>> with sites like libgen, where anyone can upload a file irrespective of >>>> copyright or ownership That file is then available worldwide to everyone. >>>> Consequently, the holders of the copyright have no protection at all other >>>> than some people having ethical issues with libgen. Sadly, I find many of >>>> my colleagues and students do not see this as an ethical issue. >>>> >>>> Ed >>>> >>>> _______________________ >>>> >>>> Ed Angel >>>> >>>> Founding Director, Art, Research, Technology and Science Laboratory >>>> (ARTS Lab) >>>> Professor Emeritus of Computer Science, University of New Mexico >>>> >>>> 1017 Sierra Pinon >>>> Santa Fe, NM 87501 >>>> 505-984-0136 (home) an...@cs.unm.edu >>>> 505-453-4944 (cell) http://www.cs.unm.edu/~angel >>>> >>>> On Jul 5, 2020, at 4:14 PM, Sarbajit Roy <sroy...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Edward >>>> >>>> The PDF of the 7th edition of your book being widely circulated was >>>> very likely not generated from its Kindle version, but from the Postscript >>>> version used to print your book. It was generated using Adobe Distiller 7+ >>>> for a Macintosh. Must have been cloned from one of those unwatermarked >>>> copies dished out by your publisher's marketing team to "potential" >>>> customers. >>>> >>>> Sarbajit >>>> >>>> On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 2:52 AM Edward Angel <an...@cs.unm.edu> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I’ve been a book author since 1972 and a textbook author since 1989. >>>>> My computer graphics textbook has been the most popular book in the area >>>>> for 20 years and just came out in its eighth edition with various editions >>>>> being available in Chinese, Korean, Japanese and Russian. Sadly, the book >>>>> business has changed over that time; changed in way that is bad for almost >>>>> everyone, especially authors. I think you’re faced with a lot of bad >>>>> choices. I hope some of the following will prove helpful. And if not >>>>> helpful, at least interesting. >>>>> >>>>> Before I forget, you might enjoy reading of my adventures writing the >>>>> first edition of my present textbook while on sabbatical in Venezuela, >>>>> Ecuador, Hong Kong and Nepal. There’s a pointer to it on my home page >>>>> www.cs.unm.edu/~angel >>>>> >>>>> When I had to pick a publisher, I knew the editors and local book >>>>> reps at Academic Press, Addison-Wesley, Prentice Hall and >>>>> Benjamin/Cummings. They dominated the CS field and did so largely because >>>>> they had editors who knew the field, excellent book reps who knew the >>>>> needs >>>>> of the faculty and students, a willingness to invest in a book, and >>>>> in-house production. None of these exist anymore and, as Tom pointed out, >>>>> you're largely on your own. It’s unfortunate if you care about how many >>>>> copies get sold and your royalties. I have many friends who self-published >>>>> in the past. It’s a lot of work either way but I prefer to put my effort >>>>> into content and not type-setting or marketing. None of my self-published >>>>> friends have ever sold many books. >>>>> >>>>> I had three excellent editors over 20 years. When I did my first >>>>> edition, my editor hired a development editor at great expense to improve >>>>> the quality of my writing. She worked with the CS faculty and grad >>>>> students >>>>> at Caltech and Stanford. It made a huge difference. Now almost none of >>>>> these jobs exist within the publishers. All production is contracted out >>>>> to >>>>> the low bidders (art, typesetting, copy editing, etc) most of whom are in >>>>> India. I no longer have an editor. There is one person working for the >>>>> publusher with whom I communicate with to try to get things done correctly >>>>> with the contractors. This last edition has been a long painful >>>>> experience. >>>>> >>>>> So what happened? Books were always expensive for students, especially >>>>> when sold through college bookstores. Then used book sellers appeared and >>>>> Asian students started importing low cost Asian versions of the standard >>>>> textbooks. Under US copyright laws, both are legal. The publishers >>>>> responded by upping prices which reduced sales even more. >>>>> >>>>> And then came electronic media. At first, my book, like most others, >>>>> was still print-only. But the publisher sent perfect unwatermarked pdfs to >>>>> all the schools what adopted the book for use by students with special >>>>> needs. Wasn’t long before those pdfs made it to the Web. Then they had a >>>>> electronic version and a kindle version that students could rent for a >>>>> semester or year. The publisher, the largest in the business, was clueless >>>>> about web security and had no idea that Kindles are not secure. Very >>>>> quickly, the book appeared (with most of the other cs texts and various >>>>> best sellers) on a Russian website as a “public service.” End of paid >>>>> sales. >>>>> >>>>> The new edition is only available in electronic form and the publisher >>>>> claims it is only available on a secure site. I doubt anyone on this list >>>>> believes that. >>>>> >>>>> Although I never in the past had issues with the publisher having the >>>>> copyright, which was pretty standard, I wish I had it now. Since there is >>>>> no hope of making significant royalties now (we used), my coauthor and I >>>>> would like to put the book out for free on our websites rather than having >>>>> it appear on various illegal Russian sites known to most students. >>>>> >>>>> Personally, I no longer care about royalties but the long term issue I >>>>> worry about is why would any young person write a textbook. It’s a huge >>>>> amount of work and usually not something that in the academic world is >>>>> valued as highly as research papers and grant funding. >>>>> >>>>> Ed >>>>> _______________________ >>>>> >>>>> Ed Angel >>>>> >>>>> Founding Director, Art, Research, Technology and Science Laboratory >>>>> (ARTS Lab) >>>>> Professor Emeritus of Computer Science, University of New Mexico >>>>> >>>>> 1017 Sierra Pinon >>>>> Santa Fe, NM 87501 >>>>> 505-984-0136 (home) an...@cs.unm.edu >>>>> 505-453-4944 (cell) http://www.cs.unm.edu/~angel >>>>> >>>>> On Jul 4, 2020, at 2:25 PM, Jochen Fromm <j...@cas-group.net> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Thanks. Yes, self-publishing is an option. I am looking for an >>>>> official publisher mainly for one reason, namely that other scientists and >>>>> researchers can cite it, since I still cling to the illusion that someone >>>>> would actually do it. Normally self-published texts are not considered as >>>>> reliable or trustworthy sources. I didn't expect that finding a decent >>>>> publisher would be so difficult. >>>>> >>>>> -J. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -------- Original message -------- >>>>> From: Tom Johnson <t...@jtjohnson.com> >>>>> Date: 7/4/20 20:10 (GMT+01:00) >>>>> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group < >>>>> friam@redfish.com> >>>>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed >>>>> >>>>> Jochen: >>>>> The deal being offered strikes me as a bad deal. >>>>> >>>>> Background: I have been practicing and teaching about "Be Your Own >>>>> Publisher" for nearly 15 years. There are, in my opinion, some major >>>>> problems with all publishers today. It starts with control of the >>>>> copyright. I think YOU should want to maintain control of the copyright >>>>> to >>>>> your work. It will depend on the contract, but many or most publishers >>>>> will try to lock down the copyright in their favor for all -- ALL -- forms >>>>> of your work in perpetuity and throughout the universe. Sometimes quite >>>>> literally. >>>>> >>>>> Second, you should assume -- especially with a small publisher and >>>>> you, not being as well known as Stephen King or Daniel Steele -- the >>>>> publisher will do little if anything to promote your book beyond a mention >>>>> in its catalog and, maybe, some promotional links on Amazon. Given that, >>>>> a >>>>> 5 percent royalty should be seen as a con. >>>>> >>>>> Third, given your computing experience, you should find it easy to >>>>> format and produce the book yourself. I have used Lulu.com >>>>> <http://lulu.com/> for years. It is especially good if you want to >>>>> have both hardback, paperback and PDF editions. Again the advantages: you >>>>> keep the copyright, you can set (and change) the prices and to a degree >>>>> the >>>>> royalties. Also, Lulu and Amazon handle all the backend financial >>>>> arrangements and administration and pay directly and quickly. I also use >>>>> a >>>>> very good, high quality digital printer in Albuquerque for paperback >>>>> editions. It is Lithexcel <https://lithexcel.com/services/print.html>. >>>>> It handles all the printing (one copy to any number) quickly, along with >>>>> all the fulfillment and accounting. The folks there will also, for only >>>>> $25, set up your book in the Amazon inventory search engine. Finally, >>>>> there is Amazon's self-publishing arm >>>>> <https://www.bookbaby.com/free-publishing-guides?utm_campaign=GOOSL31&utm_source=SITELINK&utm_medium=cpc&mkwid=sNzCXe5z8_dc%7Cpcrid%7C238281756657%7Cpmt%7Ce%7Cpkw%7Camazon%20book%20publishing%7Cslid%7CcWU1oXIv%7Ctargetids%7Ckwd-362938383597%7Cgroupid%7C48812614458%7C&pgrid=48812614458&ptaid=kwd-362938383597&gclid=Cj0KCQjw0YD4BRD2ARIsAHwmKVnFci42apQ6vWUruvHuYX-FOum9VCF7bx83c_tSMHGoby8yylL_RTMaAjOEEALw_wcB>. >>>>> While Amazon might take a bigger slice, the control over all aspects is in >>>>> your hands. >>>>> >>>>> Here's the problem/challenge with all of these. *YOU* have to do the >>>>> marketing/publicity/promotion. But so what? If you today sign with any >>>>> publisher of any size you will have to do the same thing. >>>>> >>>>> Hope this helps. Feel free to contact me with questions. Also you >>>>> might want to see https://bit.ly/2ZvihKc >>>>> Tom >>>>> >>>>> ============================================ >>>>> Tom Johnson - t...@jtjohnson.com >>>>> Institute for Analytic Journalism -- Santa Fe, NM USA >>>>> 505.577.6482(c) 505.473.9646(h) >>>>> *NM Foundation for Open Government* <http://nmfog.org/> >>>>> *Check out It's The People's Data >>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/pages/Its-The-Peoples-Data/1599854626919671>* >>>>> >>>>> ============================================ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon> >>>>> Virus-free. >>>>> www.avast.com >>>>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link> >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 1:29 AM Jochen Fromm <j...@cas-group.net> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> At one end of the spectrum there are the 5 big commercial publishers >>>>>> Hachette, HarperCollins, Macmillan, Penguin Random House and Simon & >>>>>> Schuster. They only publish stuff their agents select to make a lot of >>>>>> money. There are also the big academic publishers like OUP, CUP, HUP and >>>>>> MIT Press, which preferably publish strictly peer-reviewed content from >>>>>> professors at Ivy League universities who made their PhD at the age of >>>>>> 20. >>>>>> >>>>>> At the other end of the spectrum there are "predatory publishers" who >>>>>> publish anything you submit as long as you pay enough money for it. Open >>>>>> access books can also be very expensive. Publishing an "open access book" >>>>>> at De Gruyter for example costs up to 8000 $. You pay for it so that >>>>>> other >>>>>> people read it. It is basically some kind of advertising of your own >>>>>> work. >>>>>> >>>>>> For my own new book I finally have an offer from a small publisher in >>>>>> Washington D.C. who is somewhere in the middle of the spectrum. They are >>>>>> really small and offer 5% royalties. Should I accept this offer or wait >>>>>> for >>>>>> a better one? It is the only one from more than 25 publishers I have >>>>>> asked, >>>>>> and the publishers at the moment are flooded with submissions. :-/ >>>>>> >>>>>> https://www.theguardian.com/books/booksblog/2020/mar/26/novel-writing-during-coronavirus-crisis-outbreak >>>>>> >>>>>> -J. >>>>>> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >>>>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>>>>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >>>>>> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>>>>> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >>>>>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>>>>> >>>>> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >>>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>>>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >>>>> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>>>> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >>>>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >>>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>>>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >>>>> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>>>> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >>>>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>>>> >>>> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >>>> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>>> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >>>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>>> >>>> >>>> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >>>> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>>> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >>>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>>> >>> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >>> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>> >> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >
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