Everyone needs to understand---and soon---that the entitlement that allows us to exist as a species is disappearing rapidly as climate catastrophe continues to cascade. Everything else is noise.
On Wed, Apr 10, 2019 at 1:02 PM Nick Thompson <nickthomp...@earthlink.net> wrote: > One of you said: > > > > *and I can't help but wonder *why* individuals are so entitled to think > they deserve anything at all other than the opportunity to exist ... if > even that.* > > > > > > Lurking in the back caves of my liberal bleeding heart lurks a troll who > responds badly to "entitlement" and its close relative "victimhood." > > Every entitlement enjoyed by one person relies on an obligation taken on > by others. So the conversation should start with deciding what obligations > we want to take on so as to afford a reasonable sense of safety and > protection for others. I happen to think that I, and my children, and > grandchildren will be happier there are basic supports to limit poverty, > disease, and despair in the population around us. And, I am also glad when > I think that those supports will be available for me and mine, should they > become necessary. But is there a "moral hazard", here? Will I drive less > cautiously because I have automobile insurance, smoke more and drink more > Pepsi because I have health insurance, spend more freely because there will > be food stamps? I suppose there's data on that, somewhere. > > > > Nick > > > > Nicholas S. Thompson > > Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology > > Clark University > > http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Steven A Smith > Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2019 10:00 AM > To: friam@redfish.com > Subject: [FRIAM] Latent Topics was: enough sleep? > > > > Marcus wrote, in response to Glen: > > > > > In the end, life is just a struggle for power. > > > > I think this is technically accurate, but may carry a cynicism which > ignores some subtleties along the way? It invokes the image attributed (I > think) to Tennyson and perhaps exploited by Dawkins to provide contrast to > support his Selfish Genery (Nick?). "Nature: Red in Tooth and Claw". > > > > Edwin Wilson might anthropomorphize "genes" in Dawkins style, with his > statement “morality is an illusion fobbed off on us by our genes to get us > to cooperate”, but it does seem to sum up one perspective on the illusions > (or realities?) that seem to come along with cooperation > > (symbiosis) in nature? > > > > From my ALife days, "Life" is a lot of things at once, while being roughly > as simple as systems which increase negentropy in the flux of free energy > sources. Your "struggle for power" is perhaps a reflection of the > competition for better exposure to said "flux". Coherence, Homeostasis, > Reproduction, Competition for Resources... It seems like some here have > been more deeply engaged in these topics than I... your colloquial use of > "Power" would suggest a little higher level of emergent properties, > implying networks of predator/prey, parasite/symbiote, even ecosystems? > Erwin Schroedinger in his classic _What is Life?_ seemed to reduce it as > well as any physicist could, yet still left open plenty of acknowledgement > of higher level emergent properties (I think). > > > > I have recently been reading up on "plant guilds" and in particular "tree > guilds" to improve how I encourage or cultivate the landscape around my > house to become more productive and interesting for me and mine. > Recognizing the subtle interactions between highly distinct species (from > every kingdom of life) and how their resonances can be reinforcing is > fascinating. Of course, the ideal of what is "pleasing and productive" is > highly context-dependent. I don't know what kinds of ecosystems have > evolved around "invasive species" such as tumbleweeds, russian olives, > tamarisk, but it might only be their relatively *recent* invasion that has > us considering them a problem... > > they haven't found an equilibrium with the other flora, fauna and > hydrogeological phenomena (riparian in particular) and all WE recognize is > the disruption of the old order, and lament the loss of the "convenient" > qualities offered to us and ours by the old order. > > > > I am also 90% of the way through Richard Powers latest Novel _Overstory_ > which uses the lives and loves of perhaps a dozen humans to expose the rich > and ancient history of and contemporary experience of Trees. It is > something of an epic opus among his many richly complex books and > characters. He did a reading at the Lensic in February and reported that > during the course of the research for this book he moved to the edge of the > Smoky Mountain National Park to be near the old growth forest there while > he finished up the novel. The human societal metaphor of a Guild centered > around a Tree seems pale in import and complexity in the face of his > description of the legacy of trees and forests. > > > > - Steve > > > > > As soon as one starts to think in terms of entitled or not entitled > (beyond rhetoric and tactics), it is just taking your eye off the ball. > Whether it is for the best or not is in the end, subjective. > > > > > > Btw, it's good you point out the concept of the "underlying thread". > Same idea: There's the stated topic of a thread and then there are latent > topics. Usually latent topics are more interesting anyway. An > individual can be a class or an individual can be one of a billion > instances of a latent class. Mostly we are all redundant, and encouraged > to be so -- the latter -- good little consumers, churchgoers, and taxpayers. > > > > > > On 4/10/19, 7:46 AM, "Friam on behalf of glen∈ℂ" <friam-boun...@redfish.com > on behalf of geprope...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > The underlying thread seems to be the extent to which we are part of > a fluid and the extent to which that fluid's phenomena are distinct from > those phenomena generated by the individual parts, the humans. > Individualist ⇔ socialist spectrum, the ontological status of groups > (including whether your animals are mere slaves or full members of your > group), cyborg or healthy organelle, etc. > > > > > > It reminds me of the quote I think highlights the individualist's > > > arrogance: "I don't know why we're here. But I'm pretty sure it's not > > > to enjoy ourselves." (attributed to Wittgenstein) > > > > > > Why do we think we should ever "feel recharged", "be happy", "be > healthy", etc? I look at the way my cats behave, compare their lives to > that of the stray we fed (and who bled all over our patio every time he > ate, who when we took him to the Feral Cat Society, killed him right off > the bat because he had so many diseases) and I can't help but wonder *why* > individuals are so entitled to think they deserve anything at all other > than the opportunity to exist ... if even that. > > > > > > > > > ============================================================ > > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > > > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > > > to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > > > archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > > > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove > > > > > > > > > ============================================================ > > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe > > > at St. John's College to unsubscribe > > > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > > > archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > > > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove > > > > > > > > > ============================================================ > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > > archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove > -- Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D. Executive Director, Center for Emergent Diplomacy emergentdiplomacy.org Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA merlelefk...@gmail.com <merlelef...@gmail.com> mobile: (303) 859-5609 skype: merle.lelfkoff2 twitter: @Merle_Lefkoff
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
