p.s. I also said that the probability of heads for a fair coin is 0.5. Of course, that's a definition but since he was denying the reality of probability I think that cut some ice.
---- Frank Wimberly www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2 Phone (505) 670-9918 On Mon, Jul 9, 2018, 12:50 PM Frank Wimberly <[email protected]> wrote: > Actually Nick is competitive with you for skepticism. We were discussing > probabilities and he said you can't know the probability of an event based > on past observations. He basically said just because the probability of an > event has always been P, how do you know it still is? Is that a fair > characterization of what you said, Nick? > > ---- > Frank Wimberly > > www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2 > > Phone (505) 670-9918 > > On Mon, Jul 9, 2018, 12:05 PM uǝlƃ ☣ <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Sorry for the extra post. But it occurred to me you might be asking >> whether *my* autonomous nervous system believes in the utility of these >> measurements. If so, I can give a full-throated "No." My doubt comes from >> listening to my S.O. (Renee') talk about things like blood pressure and how >> they're used in clinical settings as well as my own experience as a >> patient. "Assessing the patient" by an intuitive, signal fusing, machine >> (nurse, doctor, anesthetist) seems to have much more utility than any given >> particular (linearized) measurement of a subsystem. The utility of, say, >> the heart rate, is waaaaayyy below my threshold for belief. >> >> On 07/09/2018 10:53 AM, uǝlƃ ☣ wrote: >> > Interesting insertion of "utility", a kind of meta-variable to be >> considered. To be clear, I'd say the organism believes in heartbeats, lung >> pumping, etc. But to ask whether the organism believes in the >> usability/utility of (subjective) measurements of such things smacks of a >> hidden assumption. >> > >> > But to answer as authentically as I can in spite of that hidden >> assumption, I'd answer that *after* the yogi did such a full cycle >> manipulation successfully at least *once*, then that yogi might believe >> that meta-variable. (By "full cycle manipulation", I mean taking conscious >> control and reinstalling the new behavior into the autonomous part.) After >> such success, the yogi organism has some experience with whether, how, and >> what impact any particular part may have had. For example, perhaps >> heartbeat plays no role in her ability to take conscious control and >> reinstall the new program. Hence, she might doubt the utility of >> heartbeats but believe the utility of lung pumping regulation. >> > >> > Again, though, whether the yogi organism believes in this meta-layer >> "utility of X" would depend on where they draw the threshold. I can >> imagine very process-based yogis who, like me, put little stock in belief >> and more in the process of doing, staying "hands on". And I can imagine >> yogis who idealize the process (perhaps similar to chi?) and may even write >> books about it. I have no experience with how yogis actually are, of >> course. >> > >> > >> > On 07/09/2018 10:21 AM, Prof David West wrote: >> >> I think the answer may be in what you just wrote, but a bit of >> assistance please. If we were to anthropomorphize your autonomous nervous >> system would you say it 'believed' or 'doubted' the utility of heartbeats, >> lungs pumping, etc.? >> >> >> >> My interest arises from studies of Yoga adepts who "take conscious >> control of breathing" and upon achieving total conscious control, delegate >> the control back to the autonomous system which maintains the regularized, >> 'managed' breathing instead of the 'normal', somewhat chaotic/strange >> attracter-ish breathing regimen prior to the application of Yoga technique. >> > >> >> -- >> ☣ uǝlƃ >> >> ============================================================ >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove >> >
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
