My adopted daughter was born in Mexico. She lived in Pittsburgh for over a year before we moved to Santa Fe. She went to a small, private kindergarten there which was very diverse with Asians, Arabs, African Americans, and many blonde Americans. After she had been in school in Santa Fe for awhile I asked her if there were any other Hispanic kids in her class. She said, "I don't know". I think this is an example of what David says. The answer was yes.
Frank Frank Wimberly Phone (505) 670-9918 On Nov 14, 2016 1:51 PM, "Prof David West" <profw...@fastmail.fm> wrote: > perhaps an example, perhaps not: > > all humans, probably all animals, are innately xenophobic, we are all > afraid of the "other." This is nature. But, fear of the black man, or the > woman, or whatever, comes about only when our context, the collective / the > culture gives definition to the xenophobic "other." > > absent the collective, no individual would be racist or misogynist, but > they would be afraid. > > davew > > > > > On Mon, Nov 14, 2016, at 01:20 PM, Steven A Smith wrote: > > Glen - > > Not to be argumentative, but: > > *Yes, the racist attributes of the system map to the individual's myopia, > their inability to extrapolate to the consequences of their own actions. But > at the system layer, the attribute is racism. At the individual layer, the > attributes are not racism. Myopia (and other types of ignorance) at the > individual layer can generate all sorts of systemic effects. If such > gen-phen mappings were always bijections, then there would be no "complex > systems". > > * > > It sounds as if you are entirely dissociating individual racist (or > misogynist or... ) bigotry from the collective? > > I know you to have some fairly eclectic ideas about individual and > collective human behaviour/motivation/self-awareness, so I'm trying to > wrap my head around what you are trying to say here rather than deny or > discount or disagree with it. > > Perhaps one could postulate that many if not all human "sins" are > emergent properties of collectives and that individuals, raised out of the > context of an already corrupted group would not have those properties. > Adam and Eve before expulsion from the garden of Eden? It is as if you > are suggesting that many (or all?) individuals remain in some kind of state > of Grace, marred only by their myopic (and other types of) ignorance, > magnified quantitatively or transformed qualitatively into the kind > "sinful" behaviour we see in group activities? I can buy SOME of that, > but have a hard time not believing that there *are* truly bad actors, > individuals who have, through whatever process of arriving (nature or > nurture, genetic/disease/trauma-induced insanity), exhibit truly, deeply > madly abhorrent if not actually evil (how do you measure that?) behaviour? > > Again, not to belabor it, I know you to have some very *useful* (to me) > alternative perspectives on things, I'm hoping my questions here provoke > you to illuminate me more. > > - Steve > > > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove > > > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove >
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
