perhaps an example, perhaps not: all humans, probably all animals, are innately xenophobic, we are all afraid of the "other." This is nature. But, fear of the black man, or the woman, or whatever, comes about only when our context, the collective / the culture gives definition to the xenophobic "other."
absent the collective, no individual would be racist or misogynist, but they would be afraid. davew On Mon, Nov 14, 2016, at 01:20 PM, Steven A Smith wrote: > Glen - > Not to be argumentative, but: >> *Yes, the racist attributes of the system map to the individual's >> myopia, their inability to extrapolate to the consequences of their >> own actions. But at the system layer, the attribute is racism. At >> the individual layer, the attributes are not racism. Myopia (and >> other types of ignorance) at the individual layer can generate all >> sorts of systemic effects. If such gen-phen mappings were always >> bijections, then there would be no "complex systems". * > It sounds as if you are entirely dissociating individual racist (or > misogynist or... ) bigotry from the collective? > > I know you to have some fairly eclectic ideas about individual and > collective human behaviour/motivation/self-awareness, so I'm trying > to wrap my head around what you are trying to say here rather than > deny or discount or disagree with it. > > Perhaps one could postulate that many if not all human "sins" are > emergent properties of collectives and that individuals, raised out > of the context of an already corrupted group would not have those > properties. Adam and Eve before expulsion from the garden of Eden? > It is as if you are suggesting that many (or all?) individuals > remain in some kind of state of Grace, marred only by their myopic > (and other types of) ignorance, magnified quantitatively or > transformed qualitatively into the kind "sinful" behaviour we see in > group activities? I can buy SOME of that, but have a hard time not > believing that there *are* truly bad actors, individuals who have, > through whatever process of arriving (nature or nurture, > genetic/disease/trauma- > induced insanity), exhibit truly, deeply madly abhorrent if not > actually evil (how do you measure that?) behaviour? > > Again, not to belabor it, I know you to have some very *useful* (to > me) alternative perspectives on things, I'm hoping my questions here > provoke you to illuminate me more. > > - Steve > > > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
