Yes, which means we now have two new (well, new to me, anyway) answers to the revised thread question: "Why haven't they gotten in touch?"
Nick -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Carl Tollander Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2012 10:16 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [FRIAM] So, *Are* We Alone? Nick, well, there is the issue of being on-topic or not. I think, it's on topic, insofar as folks thinking about how, when, and at what pace "advanced" civilizations might converse might have religious views that put a charge on how they are able to think about, say, what "advanced", science, mathematics might mean. However, I think there's a responsibility to talk in terms of how that might play out, rather than asserting religious axioms. I understand, Owen, that I'm talking from the assumption that the civilizations might currently exist and be talking past each other, or choosing to not converse at all, and you are talking from the standpoint of whether they might not exist yet. On 4/1/12 9:31 PM, Nicholas Thompson wrote: > I don't remember anybody complaining about discussions of religion, per se. > I do remember a request that contempt or gratuitous nastiness not be a > part of such a discussion I would also urge everybody to bear in mind > that this is, after all, a list of people loosely self identified as > "complexiticists". But that hardly excludes any topic. > > Nick > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On > Behalf Of Sarbajit Roy > Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2012 8:51 PM > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] So, *Are* We Alone? > > Dear Doug, > > (And being mindful that some/most people on this list don't want to be > inflicted with religious rants - so we can take this offlist hereafter ?? ). > > On the codicil, > > I can't agree that Islam is an Eastern Religion. It is as much a > Western religion as Judaism or Christianity is. All Western religions > are now proselytising religions which are geared to impose their will, > their leaders and prophets on the unwilling. Nonetheless, as per me, > Judaism is the most Eastern of these 3 religions and my own > religionists would straightway agree > (generally) with the first 4 of Judaism's principles as set down by, > say, Maimonides. > > ie. to say > > 1. The existence of God > 2. God's unity > 3. God's spirituality and incorporeality 4. God's eternity > > About 95% of my co-religionists would also agree with his 5th > principle > > 5. God alone should be the object of worship > > Unfortunately we cannot agree with any of the other 8 proselytising > Judaic principles. or 8 of the 10 Commandments of Christianity or 4 of > the 5 Pillars of Islam which are being collectively thrust on the East > by imperialist means for economic / political objectives. > > Sarbajit > > On 4/2/12, Douglas Roberts<[email protected]> wrote: >> Dear Sarbajit, >> >> I take your points, but with one codicil: The Muslim religion is >> also of eastern origin, and I suspect you will agree that the >> Islamic "Sunday School" teachings in today's fundamentalist Islamic >> countries are also somewhat problematic, for obvious reasons which we >> maybe don't want to dwell on here. >> >> --Doug >> >> On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 10:15 AM, Sarbajit Roy<[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Dear Doug >>> >>> What is taught in Sunday School is the problem with the "Christian" >>> religion which for the most part seems based on gospels, unprovable >>> historical events and parables etc. The ancient Eastern religions >>> Dave mentioned don't have that problem insofar as their core beliefs >>> are concerned >>> >>> For instance, my own religion's very ancient working principles can >>> be distilled into 4 or 5 sentences. I would really like to know >>> where and why you differ with me on them. >>> >>> 1) "GOD" (aka "Singularity"). Infinite, formless, beyond >>> description, ruling principle of existence. [Comment - In other >>> words there is a Unified Theory of Everything but "we" can never >>> know it.] >>> >>> 2) "SALVATION". There is no salvation and no way to achieve it. All >>> life exists to be consumed. There is neither Heaven nor Hell nor >>> rebirth. >>> >>> 3) "WORSHIP". There is no scripture, revelation, creation, prophet, >>> priest or teacher to be revered. Worship consist of revering the >>> "inner light within" (i.e. enlightened conscience / intelligence) >>> >>> 4) "CULTS". There is no distinction. (All men are equal. >>> Distinctions like caste, race, creed, colour, gender, nationality >>> etc. are artificial. There is no need for priests, places of >>> worship, long sermons etc. "Man-worship" or "God-men" are abhorent >>> to the faith and denounced since there is no mediator between man >>> and God) >>> >>> 5) "LIFE-FORMS" God / religion is not limited to "Man" alone, but >>> covers / permeates all "life" >>> >>> Sarbajit >>> > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe > at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at > http://www.friam.org > > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe > at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at > http://www.friam.org > ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
