I agree with Nick's implied rules of engagement. Gratuitous contempt
and nastiness are about the only things I find hard to remedy with
liberal use of my <delete> or my ability to skim an e-mail and go on (by
the time I realize I want to disregard same, I have been infected by it).
My father used to say: "I don't talk religion or politics with
anyone... with anyone!" . I don't go that far, but I admit that once
someone degenerates into proselytizing to me (actively or as passively
as *assuming* that I share their religious or political beliefs) I am at
least mildly offended (irritated?).
I am, however, always interested in peoples experiences and reasoned
analysis of those experiences, including religious and political, though
I'd prefer to hear about "spiritual" and "intellectual" experiences and
considerations, I guess.
- Steve
I don't remember anybody complaining about discussions of religion, per se.
I do remember a request that contempt or gratuitous nastiness not be a part
of such a discussion I would also urge everybody to bear in mind that this
is, after all, a list of people loosely self identified as
"complexiticists". But that hardly excludes any topic.
Nick
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Sarbajit Roy
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2012 8:51 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] So, *Are* We Alone?
Dear Doug,
(And being mindful that some/most people on this list don't want to be
inflicted with religious rants - so we can take this offlist hereafter ?? ).
On the codicil,
I can't agree that Islam is an Eastern Religion. It is as much a Western
religion as Judaism or Christianity is. All Western religions are now
proselytising religions which are geared to impose their will, their leaders
and prophets on the unwilling. Nonetheless, as per me, Judaism is the most
Eastern of these 3 religions and my own religionists would straightway agree
(generally) with the first 4 of Judaism's principles as set down by, say,
Maimonides.
ie. to say
1. The existence of God
2. God's unity
3. God's spirituality and incorporeality 4. God's eternity
About 95% of my co-religionists would also agree with his 5th principle
5. God alone should be the object of worship
Unfortunately we cannot agree with any of the other 8 proselytising Judaic
principles. or 8 of the 10 Commandments of Christianity or 4 of the 5
Pillars of Islam which are being collectively thrust on the East by
imperialist means for economic / political objectives.
Sarbajit
On 4/2/12, Douglas Roberts<[email protected]> wrote:
Dear Sarbajit,
I take your points, but with one codicil: The Muslim religion is also
of eastern origin, and I suspect you will agree that the Islamic
"Sunday School" teachings in today's fundamentalist Islamic countries
are also somewhat problematic, for obvious reasons which we maybe
don't want to dwell on here.
--Doug
On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 10:15 AM, Sarbajit Roy<[email protected]> wrote:
Dear Doug
What is taught in Sunday School is the problem with the "Christian"
religion which for the most part seems based on gospels, unprovable
historical events and parables etc. The ancient Eastern religions
Dave mentioned don't have that problem insofar as their core beliefs
are concerned
For instance, my own religion's very ancient working principles can
be distilled into 4 or 5 sentences. I would really like to know where
and why you differ with me on them.
1) "GOD" (aka "Singularity"). Infinite, formless, beyond description,
ruling principle of existence. [Comment - In other words there is a
Unified Theory of Everything but "we" can never know it.]
2) "SALVATION". There is no salvation and no way to achieve it. All
life exists to be consumed. There is neither Heaven nor Hell nor
rebirth.
3) "WORSHIP". There is no scripture, revelation, creation, prophet,
priest or teacher to be revered. Worship consist of revering the
"inner light within" (i.e. enlightened conscience / intelligence)
4) "CULTS". There is no distinction. (All men are equal. Distinctions
like caste, race, creed, colour, gender, nationality etc. are
artificial. There is no need for priests, places of worship, long
sermons etc. "Man-worship" or "God-men" are abhorent to the faith and
denounced since there is no mediator between man and God)
5) "LIFE-FORMS" God / religion is not limited to "Man" alone, but
covers / permeates all "life"
Sarbajit
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FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
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============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
