'Twasn't an intrusion, but let me say that if you can model the propagation
of aggregate stupidity in country-sized social networks,
I'll happily purchase the rights to your simulation!

--Doug

On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 4:15 PM, Tom Vest <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Feb 13, 2010, at 3:43 PM, Douglas Roberts wrote:
>
> > Sheesh, what a bunch of academic phraseology!
> >       • functional modularization
> >       • combinatorial evolution
> >       • both "top-down" as well as "bottom-up" initiative [...]
> indispensable
> > IM(Not So)HO,  America at large has been sufficiently dumbed down by the
> brutal combination of a mediocre educational system, an academic peer review
> system that rigidly refuses to think outside the box, pay-for-play politics,
> fundamentalist christian & christian wannabe religions, McDonalds
> lardburgers, and short-sighted Wall Street quants that innovation is now
> solidly a thing of the past, and will probably remain so for a very long
> time.
> >
> > --Doug
>
> Actually, we said approximately the same thing, or rather your list
> included a small subset of the things I was trying to cover with my academic
> phraseology.
> No question that your phraseology is much more colorful! Not so easy to
> model however.
>
> I only chimed in (and subscribed) because I'm trying to model some related
> problems in my own field.
> I saw the terms "modeling" and "applied complexity" on the group page --
> but perhaps I misinterpreted the sense in which one or more of those terms
> is being used...
>
> In any case, please excuse the intrusion.
>
> TV
>
>
> > On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 12:47 PM, Tom Vest <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > On Feb 13, 2010, at 8:21 AM, Jochen Fromm wrote:
> >
> > > In a recent washingtonpost.com article named
> > > "Erasing our innovation deficit" ( http://bit.ly/cG6vGW )
> > > Eric Schmidt said
> > >
> > > "We have been world leaders in [technological] innovation for
> generations. It has driven our economy, employment growth and our rising
> prosperity.
> > > [..] We can no longer rely on the top-down approach of the 20th
> century, when big investments in the military and NASA spun off to the wider
> economy."
> > >
> > > Do you agree? What kind of approach does the
> > > USA need to return to old strength?
> > >
> > > -J.
> >
> > I'm surprised that none of the current/former SFIers on the list have
> mentioned Brian Arthur's recent pitch for "combinatorial evolution" as the
> engine of innovation.
> > As I read it, Brian's argument is that innovation is an epiphenomenon
> arising from:
> >
> > -- the functional modularization of many different kinds of
> technologies*, plus
> > -- the standardization of "open" interfaces enabling those functional
> components or modules to be combined in different ways, plus
> > -- an environment that enables and incentivizes widespread experimental
> combination of different technologies, e.g., by occasionally rewarding those
> who come up with novel, useful combinations.
> >
> > *These could be of the "hard" or "soft" variety, e.g., chip design or
> double-entry bookkeeping.
> >
> > So, on this account it would seem that both "top-down" as well as
> "bottom-up" initiative is indispensable.
> > Bottom-up activities are the proximate cause and primary engine driving
> innovation.
> > However, the size of that engine (e.g., the share of the total population
> capable of participating constrictively in the combinatorial search) depends
> substantially on the existence, scope, and openness/interoperability of
> those modules and the standardized interfaces between them. Unfortunately,
> by their very definition "standards" are a top-down phenomenon -- both
> because they are never adopted with unanimous consent (but must be appx.
> universally binding with a domain in order to work in that domain), and
> because they must remain relatively stable over time, which means that for
> everyone that comes along after the moment of standardization, they may feel
> like an "unjust," arbitrary imposition.
> >
> > In 2002, a quartet of prominent Internet standards developers published a
> paper called "Tussle in Cyberspace" (link below), which made a broadly
> similar argument about how the Internet has evolved. However, while
> mechanisms that the Tussle authors describe are broadly similar, the tone
> seems quite different, to me at least. The earlier paper seemed to be
> (obliquely) engaging a topical issues that was just emerging around that
> time -- i.e., the aspirations of some dominant Internet service providers to
> subtly alter and/or partially vacate some of the standards that make the
> Internet "open" and thus had fostered the Internet's rapid growth up to that
> time (note: today the issue is most commonly called "net neutrality"). In
> that context, the Tussle paper seems to lean ever so slightly past the
> domain of observation and Darwinian theory construction, in the general
> direction of advocating the tussle process and the embrace of whatever
> outcomes it yields, ala "social darwinism."
> >
> > In any case, I think that any present US deficit in innovation can
> probably be chalked up, at least in part, to the ongoing progressive
> deviation from our most recent moment of optimal balance between those "top
> down" and "bottom up" forces. Some of the biggest recent winners in the
> innovation game -- i.e., those who benefited most from the latest round of
> technical standardization -- have started exert their own top-down authority
> in ways that advance their own private interests, but which collaterally
> degrade the environment for future/distributed innovation...
> >
> > (The question resonates for me because of the looming inflection point in
> Internet protocol standards associated with the depletion of the IPv4
> address pool, which happens to be the stuff of my day job)
> >
> > My own 0.02, +/-
> >
> > Tom Vest
> >
> > "Tussle in Cyberspace: Defining Tomorrow’s Internet"
> > http://groups.csail.mit.edu/ana/Publications/PubPDFs/Tussle2002.pdf
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ============================================================
> > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Doug Roberts
> > [email protected]
> > [email protected]
> > 505-455-7333 - Office
> > 505-670-8195 - Cell
> > ============================================================
> > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
>
>
>
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org

Reply via email to