And once you add in issues of outcomes, you automatically get into areas of practice, i.e. actual human bodies, which seems to have obviously emergent properties.
It was surprising to me to find the extent to which just basic traditional statistical techniques have not made it into health care practice until quite recently. Is it a stretch to imagine that part of the reluctance of doctors to embrace the kinds of techniques used in other fields could be in part due to an inherent (if unstated and poorly realized) conviction that these systems have emergent properties? A fascinating article on evidence-based stuff below. It makes me wonder if there must first be a good understanding of the data driven stuff, or if we will quickly find ourselves pushed into a fragile corner as I think russell is suggesting. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/08/magazine/08Healthcare-t.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=evidence-based%20medicine&st=cse Not coincidently, Gary An has talked a lot about evidence-based approaches, within the context of broader complexity issues. Health care issues came up repeatedly at the most recent swarmfest.. The obesity epidemic itself could in some sense be thought of as an emrgent phenomenon, depending on what your definition of emerge is. :) On Jan 18, 2010, at 8:02 PM, Stephen Guerin wrote: > Hi Russell, > > A group of us here in Santa Fe have a strong interest in applications of > complexity to health care systems. We've worked on a few small exploratory > projects looking at the mental health systems in Florida and California as > well as health delivery for NHS in the UK. We are starting with the easier > bits of data visualization of caseflow data based on billing data and then > incorporating agent-based models. While only research-phase at this point, we > would be very interested to understand how we can approach health care and > other social systems like criminal justice as self-organizing systems > structuring in non-equilibrium contexts. > > -Stephen > --- -. . ..-. .. ... .... - .-- --- ..-. .. ... .... > [email protected] > (m) 505.577.5828 (o) 505.995.0206 > redfish.com _ sfcomplex.org _ simtable.com _ ambientpixel.com > > > > > > > > > On Jan 18, 2010, at 4:23 PM, Russell Gonnering wrote: > >> >> I know I've come to the party late, but I was fascinated by Russ Abbott's >> essay in Complexity, 2006. CT has so much to give to the health care >> debate, and so few people interested in exploring it. Even ardent >> "complexionists" (?) sometimes deny health care as a CAS. Value in health >> care is an emergent concept. Attempts at imposed order, without recognition >> of emergent order and starting point, will push the system into chaos (ala >> David Snowden's "Cynefin Framework"). >> >> Russ Gonnering ("Russ #3" >> >> ============================================================ >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org > > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
