Well, yes, though I still feel the notion was more descriptive than prescriptive. The list is not the sole source for these topics, and I think we need to find new ways to think deeper faster. As I mentioned, it is part of a larger (and perhaps more recognizably scientific) set of processes. Resilient scientific and mathematical investigations have always needed a forum for a certain amount of dyonesian tinkering; it helps keep us from building castles in the air.
Carl Science need not be opera; it must work on the folk level too. Jack Leibowitz wrote: > Are you happy with that prescription? It seems to me that when we talk > about physical phenomena and explanation- or attempts at same- we needn't > discard the basic idea of a scientific statement: consistency with what is > known and predictability and falsifiability for what is claimed. Otherwse, > we can substitute God for all the other words, such as emergence, etc. > > I don't mean to discredit concepts such those related to "emergence", etc. > Some beautiful possibilities may reside in that direction. But I hope it > doesn't suggest to proponents that we can abandon being scientists and join > the ranks of those not similarly constrained by understandings about what > makes Science so fabulously successful. > > This doesn't mean strictly remaining with restraints belonging under the > heading of that horrible word "reductionism". > > By this time, I think , I have overstayed my welcome. I do respect the good > things the group does. > > Jack > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Carl Tollander" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group" <[email protected]> > Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 3:33 PM > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Young but distant gallaxies > > > >> An emergent idea is one relatively few people are paying attention to. >> If we indulged in specifics, the ideas would cease to be emergent. >> >> So I think its kind of like we're using averted vision. A post that >> points out an >> emergent idea is not necessarily inviting a collective hot needle of >> inquiry >> on that idea, but instead is illuminating a potential cloud of nearby >> ones. >> Sometimes it also takes a bit of noise injection to figure out what's >> being >> discussed, so you see those kinds of posts too. >> >> So, if you are new, the conversation seems to jump around a lot. Takes >> a bit of getting used to. The main thing is to not think of the list >> primarily >> (though it does happen from time to time) a coherent narrative, >> but as a part of a larger environment of thought, readings and off line >> discussion. >> >> Carl >> >> Robert Holmes wrote: >> >>> Jack - >>> >>> First rule of FRIAM: no one talks about specifics. >>> Second rule of FRIAM: no one talks about specifics >>> >>> Robert >>> >>> On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 12:23 PM, Jack Leibowitz <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote: >>> >>> As a new correspondent in the FRIAM family, would someone please >>> explain, >>> with specifics, what particular emergent ideas are being referred >>> to in the >>> paragraph below. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Phil Henshaw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> >>> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>; "'The Friday Morning Applied >>> Complexity >>> Coffee Group'" <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> >>> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 11:17 AM >>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Young but distant gallaxies >>> >>> >>> >I guess that's the puzzle, since we can't use triangulation to >>> measure >>> > distance for stars we use various corollaries for age to measure >>> distance >>> > and of distance to measure age, according to the equations that >>> have >>> > seemed >>> > to make sense so far. That the equations have not been making >>> sense in >>> > several ways, like needing the invention of dark energy and dark >>> matter to >>> > bend them for other discrepancies, is what science keeps doing, >>> adding >>> > "epicycles" on old theory until some complete impasse arises... and >>> > someone >>> > finally has to think up something completely new. If others >>> don't come >>> > to >>> > the same impasse, like not seeing that emergence *must* be a local >>> > individual developmental process and so not asking *how*, no >>> amount of >>> > good >>> > solutions for the problem will be recognized. >>> > >>> >> -----Original Message----- >>> >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>] On >>> >> Behalf Of Nicholas Thompson >>> >> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 12:09 PM >>> >> To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>> >> Subject: [FRIAM] Young but distant gallaxies >>> >> >>> >> Dumb question for you cosmologists to chew over: >>> >> >>> >> How can they be so far away and yet so young? Or, to put it even >>> >> dumber, >>> >> are there parts of the Universe that are so far away that they >>> havent >>> >> happened yet? >>> >> >>> >> I guess this is a question about scales of distance vis a vis >>> scales of >>> >> time. >>> >> >>> >> Nick >>> >> >>> >> Nicholas S. Thompson >>> >> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology, >>> >> Clark University ([EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> > _______________________________________________ >>> >> > Friam mailing list >>> >> > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>> >> > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > End of Friam Digest, Vol 63, Issue 3 >>> >> > ************************************ >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> ============================================================ >>> >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>> >> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >>> >> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > ============================================================ >>> > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>> > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >>> > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> ============================================================ >>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >>> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> ============================================================ >>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >>> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org >>> >> ============================================================ >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org >> >> > > > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org > > ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
