> On Jul 31, 2022, at 12:06 PM, Liam Proven <lpro...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Sun, 31 Jul 2022 at 00:08, Jim Hall <jh...@freedos.org> wrote: >> >> There's PGME (Program Manager Eternity) which we include in FreeDOS. >> It's on the LiveCD under Applications. It gets installed to C:\PGME > > OK, so, now I have tried this. I have encountered quite a few issues > with it, unfortunately, and I don't think it will be an answer for me > either. > > I know Jerome is a regular poster here, but I do not want to cause any > offence or hurt. So, here are a few of the issues; should I open > GitHub issues for these, or are they not things you are interested in > changing?
I’m generally fairly thick skinned. :-) > > * CTMOUSE driver regularly goes crazy on hardware (maybe because my > test machines have both a trackpad and a trackpoint); PGME can't be > operated with keyboard alone. That is a deal-breaker for me. Actually, the primary screen can be operated strictly by using the keyboard. (more on that below) At present (by default), sub screens and dialogs for things like adding menus, items and changing settings really needs a mouse to edit/navigate. PGME is fully customizable. It uses events to trigger all actions. These events are bound to internal commands and the commands can be bound to any keystroke. In other words, with a lot of knowledge, fiddling and customizing (which not easy and I don’t actually recommend attempting it), nearly anything PGME can do can be bound to a keystroke. > * I replaced CTMOUSE with the Microsoft mouse driver. This works fine > and works in FreeDOS Edit etc. PGME seems not to detect it, though. > The pointer won't move. Intersting. I’ll need to look into that when I have the spare time. But, I’m kind of swamped with other things. So, you should definitely file a bug report so I don’t forget to look into it. > * No way to move between the list of entries on the current menu, on > the left, and the list of menus on the right, with the keyboard. Actually, that is not necessary. By default, UP, DOWN and other navigation keys are bound to the list of programs and move the highlight bar up and down. Using SHIFT + UP/DOWN are bound to the list of menus. > * I read left-to-right. Most Roman/Cyrillic/Greek alphabet users do. > ;-) I feel the categories should be on the left and menus on the > right. I can't see any option to rearrange them. Not an issue. :-) PGME is fully customizable. In fact, it includes a theme called CAVEMAN that does exactly that. However, that theme also changes the colors. But, you could easily modify those to your own liking by editing the CAVEMAN.THM file. If you really dig into the themes and read that section of the DOCS, you could move all kind of stuff around. For example, hide the clock and put the menu list above the menu. Or, whatever. :-) > > * I need to be able to move between those 2 panes with left and right, > or Tab, or both. With highlighting of which has keyboard focus, > perhaps by changing the colour of the box (Covered above) > > * I need to be able to edit the menus with the keyboard, and see what > the keystrokes are, ideally in the traditional way by underlining the > active letters. Along with a couple other things, that is part of the underlying and completely custom object oriented framework that powers PGME. Unfortunately since most users prefer a mouse, it has not been a priority and is something I have not got around to yet. On a side note, when editing text… PGME requires you to press ENTER. Otherwise, it will revert the text assuming you changed your mind. While in and of itself it is not a bad practice, it is very different from most UIs and sometimes gives new users a lot of problems (wondering why won’t it accept their changes). At some point, I will probably make it behave more like other UIs. > * I suggest fonts, sound effects. etc off by default, but maybe that's just > me. You cannot really turn off PGME fonts. PGME does not use the DOS font or codepage system. There are a couple reasons for that. First, even though it runs in text mode, you can have a very large (like 8x24) font. Second, by design, it is intended for users to launch things and never need to return to DOS. Just an example. You could use PGME on a KIOSK. Have all menus locked and read only, Exit to DOS prohibited, irrelevant things like (edit button) hidden and Menu entries that switch languages, fonts, keybindings to what the user wants. Including language specific menu items and much more. On a personal note, I have a some really old games. So when PGME launches those, it tells the computer to run slowly and configures the audio card mixer to turn up the microphone (inside the case next to the pc-speaker) and launches the game. Afterwards, turns off the microphone and speeds the machine back up. > > === > > PGME let me find some other programs I didn't know about. PGME has several default menus included specific to FreeDOS. Those menus and their entries are visible (or hide) based on wether or not PGME finds them installed. For example, lets say you installed no games. No games would appear in PGME. But, then you use FDIMPLES to install FreeDOOM. The next time you launch PGME, a FreeDOS Games menu will appear and it will have FreeDOOM listed. Uninstall FreeDOOM, and the entry will hide. And if there are no entries in that menu, it will hide as well. > > - > The underlaying framework that powers PGME, it is mostly complete. When it comes to it features and capabilities, PGME is very flexible and powerful. A lot depends on how deep down the rabbit hole a user goes. Even so, there are dozens or even hundreds of features on the to do list. Add any bug fixes or general improvements… “Eternity” is in the name for a reason. :-) Jerome _______________________________________________ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
