* was discussed extensively On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 6:31 PM, Brian <brian.min...@colorado.edu> wrote:
> Not only that, but what the relationship between the Foundation and the > community would be was extensively on this list well before the Foundation > become as monolithic as it is today. > > > On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 6:22 PM, Jesse Plamondon-Willard < > pathosch...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hello, >> >> Having not read the original thread, I can only comment on this new >> thread. All the rhetoric I see here is from you, with high-minded >> phrases like "people are at the heart" (as if Wikimedia staff were >> non-people), a total lack of concrete points or examples, citing >> "several experts in the field", and melodramatic statements like "the >> total disregard of [the people] by its leaders will [destroy >> Wikipedia]". >> >> If you have complaints, please be specific about what you think is >> wrong and what concrete actions can remedy it. >> >> -- >> Yours cordially, >> Jesse Plamondon-Willard (Pathoschild) >> >> >> On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 7:28 PM, Marc Riddell <michaeldavi...@comcast.net> >> wrote: >> > >> >> Marc Riddell writes: >> >> >> >>> The Foundation - and those who represent it - seem to have forgotten >> >>> that >> >>> people are at the heart of what they are there to do. And, without the >> >>> heart, it cannot live. >> > >> > on 1/8/09 4:22 PM, Mike Godwin at mgod...@wikimedia.org wrote: >> >> >> >> This is really an insupportable assertion. >> > >> > (I changed the name of this thread so that those who wish to keep their >> head >> > in the sand may do so by avoiding it.) >> > >> > My message is supported by the countless number of patronizing, >> > condescending missives handed down by your group. In them the people >> come >> > across as an after-thought. A linguistic analysis by several experts in >> the >> > field concluded that you don't have a clue about effective group >> management. >> > >> >> The Foundation and those >> >> who represent it are, if anything, hyperaware of the community on >> >> whose volunteer efforts we depend. That awareness factors into >> >> practically every decision we make. Anyone who tells you otherwise is >> >> speaking out of ignorance. >> >> >> >> To name only one example: Every time we discuss Flagged Revisions at >> >> the Foundation, someone will express concern about how it might affect >> >> community participation if current edits of a sighted version are not >> >> visible (for some period of time, at least) to those who consult >> >> Wikipedia without logging in. Sometimes the person expressing concern >> >> is me -- I know from my own long-term experience in online communities >> >> that keeping people motivated to contribute is central to a >> >> community's success. >> >> >> >> The idea that anyone at the Foundation ever forgets about the >> >> dependence of the projects on the larger community of editors is just >> >> nonsense, born out of the impulse, so common in online forums, to >> >> Assume Bad Faith. >> > >> > This is pure unsubstantiated rhetoric. There are real-life, real-time >> > problems - serious problems - that directly involve the people occurring >> in >> > the English Wikipedia for example. Where is your help? >> >> >> > <snip> My message is not about Eric. >> > >> > The culture of product first - people second was established from the >> very >> > creation of the Wikipedia Project. And it remains pretty much intact to >> this >> > day. >> > >> > Wales, in his past statement, was wrong. Humans will not destroy >> Wikipedia; >> > but rather the total disregard of them by its leaders will. >> >> >> >> Try assuming good faith. >> > >> > I have all the faith I need: in the people. >> > >> > Marc Riddell >> >> _______________________________________________ >> foundation-l mailing list >> foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l >> > > > > -- > You have successfully failed! > -- You have successfully failed! _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
