On Thursday, January 23, 2025 at 12:41:30 AM UTC-7 Alan Grayson wrote:
On Wednesday, January 22, 2025 at 7:10:56 PM UTC-7 Jesse Mazer wrote: On Wed, Jan 22, 2025 at 8:06 PM Alan Grayson <[email protected]> wrote: On Wednesday, January 22, 2025 at 2:00:25 PM UTC-7 Jesse Mazer wrote: Brent hasn't chosen to answer your question, but my guess would be he just means if you pick some specific event where part of the car is inside the garage, like the event A of the back of the car passing the garage entry door, in the garage frame the car is fully inside the garage "at the same time" as event A (using the garage frame definition of other events simultaneous with A), while in the car frame the front of the car is already well past the exit of the garage "at the same time" as event A (using the car frame definition of other events simultaneous with A). He obviously isn't disputing the notion that the two frames have different definitions of simultaneity since he made this point many times in his comments. Jesse If that's what Brent means, how is this related to the breakdown of simultaneity? AG Are you asking about where to find a breakdown of simultaneity in my statement 'if you pick some specific event where part of the car is inside the garage, like the event A of the back of the car passing the garage entry door, in the garage frame the car is fully inside the garage "at the same time" as event A (using the garage frame definition of other events simultaneous with A), while in the car frame the front of the car is already well past the exit of the garage "at the same time" as event A (using the car frame definition of other events simultaneous with A)'? If so, in that statement I'm saying that the two frames disagree about which event at the front of the car is simultaneous with A, the garage frame picks an event B on front of the car's worldline where the front of the car is inside the garage and hasn't yet reached the exit, the car frame picks a different event C on the front of the car's worldline where the front of the car is outside the garage, having already passed through the exit. In the garage frame A is simultaneous with B, in the car frame A is simultaneous with C. Jesse OK, let's suppose you've identified events which aren't simultaneous in both frames, you still have a car, the same car, which fits in one frame and never in the other. For me this still seems paradoxical even though I agree that relativity allows different frames to make different measurements of the same phenomena such as the B and E fields in E&M. AG Here's what I want to know; how exactly do you define the paradox (what it is), and how does the disagreement about simultaneity solve it for you? AG On Wed, Jan 22, 2025 at 3:00 PM Alan Grayson <[email protected]> wrote: On Monday, January 20, 2025 at 8:56:01 AM UTC-7 Alan Grayson wrote: Clark posted, and I agree, that the paradox is rooted in the assumption that fitting and not fitting of car in garage, from frame of garage and frame of car do not happen at the same time. AG But you posted "They do happen at the same time as clearly shown on my diagrams. In the garage frame the entrance door closes before the exit door has to open. The car is in the garage for about 2.5 nano-seconds. In the car frame the doors are open at the same time so the car extends thru both." Please explain this apparent discrepancy. AG Gentleman's C. Grade as a teacher of SR. AG -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/d923cb13-4de6-4d34-87cf-642fa24deafbn%40googlegroups.com.
