? And what is a form if not a quality ?
On Saturday, 11 January 2025 at 00:49:16 UTC+2 Terren Suydam wrote:
Try to keep up. You cannot prove that only qualia exists. All
you've offered so far is a tautology.
On Fri, Jan 10, 2025 at 5:17 PM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List
<everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
@Terren. So you say that I cannot prove that only existence
exists ? Then what else exists ? Inexistence ?
On Friday, 10 January 2025 at 23:16:04 UTC+2 Terren Suydam wrote:
I'm not asking you to explain existence. I'm saying you
cannot prove your claim that the only thing that /can/
exist is qualia. And you cannot prove that with a
tautology. But you knew that, right?
On Fri, Jan 10, 2025 at 3:33 PM 'Cosmin Visan' via
Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
@Terren. Not a truism. A tautology. 1=1. Of course.
What else would you want? How do you expect to explain
existence using something outside of itself ? Is
illogical. Existence exists. 1=1.
Quality = form = meaning. Quality looks the way it
does because of the meaning that it does. And meaning
is the way no-thing understands itself when it
looks-back-at-itself.
On Friday, 10 January 2025 at 22:12:36 UTC+2 Terren
Suydam wrote:
So in short, your proof is:
1. To exist means to have quality
1. Only qualia have quality
Got it. One problem though - you don't define
"quality". So your proof is just a truism: "Qualia
are all that exist because only qualia exist".
You have to define "quality" in a way that does
not invoke "existence" or "qualia". Otherwise,
your proof is something a sub-100 IQ person might
come up with.
On Fri, Jan 10, 2025 at 2:44 PM 'Cosmin Visan' via
Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
@Terren. Information doesn't exist.
"Information" is just an idea in consciousness.
Organ doesn't exist. "Organ" is just an idea
in consciousness.
Brain doesn't exist. "Brain" is just an idea
in consciousness.
Things don't exist. "Things" is just an idea
in consciousness.
See my other topic about PHYSICAL WOOOORLD
EXIIIIISISISISTTTT!!!!! See it here for
convenience:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yE9a2h5ZRqA
If qualia are about an ObJeCtIvE reality, what
is the oBjEcTiVe reality that those qualia
refer to ? Is it about:
Bart Simpson bouncing?
Rotating pirate ship?
That isn't my receipt?
Lobsters in motion?
That is embarrassing?
Lactates in pharmacy?
Baptism piracy?
That isn't mercy?
Of course you can prove that qualia are all
there is. Trolololololololololol. Big deal. Is
the most trivial thing in the world. Qualia
are all that exists because "existence" is
synonymous with "quality". To exist means to
have quality. If you have no quality you have
no form, as such you are no-thing.
50% of people are below 100. So 50% of
population are scientifically proven retards.
On Friday, 10 January 2025 at 17:43:06 UTC+2
Terren Suydam wrote:
As John Clark (a physicalist true
believer) puts it, the brute fact or
assumption is that consciousness is how it
feels when data is processed. In this
account, consciousness is the experience
of information - the information from our
sensory organs as it is processed in our
brains. So if one accepts that theory of
reality, qualia exist only as a signal
that refers to things that exist
independently of an individual's
consciousness. That's what makes it
epistemological.
That version is not what I subscribe to,
and I'm not trying to convince you that's
the correct account. I'm only saying,
there's no way, not even in principle, to
prove that that's the Truth of what the
ultimate ontology is. The same goes for
your account, which is that consciousness
and qualia are all that exists.
PS. By definition, an IQ of 100 is the
median. So "most people" have an IQ right
around 100. And I don't mean to suggest
that because most people take the
physicalist account, that makes it more
likely to be true. I'm saying, if you're
talking about your alternative, minority
theory of reality as if it's fact, then
that means you better be able to prove it.
/And you can't/ /- nobody can/, just as
nobody can prove physicalism is true.
On Fri, Jan 10, 2025 at 3:39 AM 'Cosmin
Visan' via Everything List
<everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
@Terren. How can qualia have
epistemological status when it exists
? Exists = ontologic. You seem very
confused regarding the meaning of words.
Also, "most people" have IQ below 100.
This is close to monkey-level. How is
that a criteria on which to decide truth ?
Also, define "energy"! Define "matter"!
On Tuesday, 7 January 2025 at 17:48:01
UTC+2 Terren Suydam wrote:
In your theory, the quale has
ontological status, ok. In
physicalism (what most people
assume), qualia have
epistemological status. IOW,
qualia is a form of information
about something that exists
independently of our individual
consciousness.
In your theory, consciousness is
the fundamental ontology. In
physicalism, matter & energy is
the fundamental ontology.
Deciding what is the fundamental
ontology is a metaphysical
decision. It's an assumption or
belief from which other things
follow. But the truth of what is
the fundamental ontology cannot be
proven.
On Tue, Jan 7, 2025 at 5:00 AM
'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List
<everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
@Terren. Yes. What do you mean
by "thing" ? The chair that
you see in front of you ? But
that is just a quale in
consciousness. So what do you
mean by "thing" ?
On Tuesday, 7 January 2025 at
02:28:05 UTC+2 Terren Suydam
wrote:
🙄
On Mon, Jan 6, 2025 at
7:19 PM 'Cosmin Visan' via
Everything List
<everyth...@googlegroups.com>
wrote:
@Terren. What thing ?
On Tuesday, 7 January
2025 at 00:33:55 UTC+2
Terren Suydam wrote:
I would venture
that the common
sense notion of
existence means
that a thing that
exists has been
instantiated.
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