> On 13 Jun 2020, at 15:00, Philip Thrift <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > On Saturday, June 13, 2020 at 3:45:40 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 12 Jun 2020, at 11:52, Philip Thrift <[email protected] <javascript:>> >> wrote: >> >> On Friday, June 12, 2020 at 4:43:59 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> So when I say that a number can think, observe, or even just be (Turing) >> universal, it is always a short manner to say that relatively to some “base” >> phi_i, that number belongs to a (true) relation making it mirroring >> perfectly (at the mechanist substitution level) the behaviour of a person, >> as related to its brain. >> >> Bruno >> >> >> >> But can it be conscious? > > > If “it” means the body, or the (extensional) number, the answer is no. Now, > the person associated to all equivalent relative states can be conscious. > Indeed, all relative universal number in arithmetic initiate a consciousness > flux, and the physical reality emerges from that internal arithmetic flux, > somehow. To be continued. > > Bruno > > > No one but me and you will probably even look at the abstracts of this fall's > The Science of Consciousness conference (online presentations) > > https://eagle.sbs.arizona.edu/sc/abs_report_bysession.php?p=C > <https://eagle.sbs.arizona.edu/sc/abs_report_bysession.php?p=C> > > (these are just the 139 concurrent session papers) > > but there's a lot of stuff that might be fun to read (for those who have any > imagination), like > > How In The Penrose-Hameroff Paradigm The Forms of Space-time Curvatures Can > Be Connected With The Eternal Platonic Ideas Or Forms In The Qualia Of Our > Experiences And Choices > Gerard Blommestijn (Amstelveen, Netherlands) > > The Penrose-Hameroff paradigm plays a crucial role in the current shift from > a causal and local (classical physics) view of brain processes to a > quantum-mechanical indeterministic and non-local, entanglement view. The most > important ingredient is the Orchestrated Objective Reduction process (Orch > OR). Each Orch OR event is a self-selection of space-time geometry, coupled > to the brain via microtubules and other biomolecules. Each instantaneous (and > non-computable) Orch OR or self-collapse is equated with a discrete conscious > event, a perception or a choice, the outcome of the Orch OR. Roger Penrose > has contended that, at a deeper level of description, the choice of which > outcome of an Orch OR event will occur (which of the superposed space-time > geometries will become real) may arise as a result of a presently unknown > non-computational mathematical/physical (i.e. Platonic realm) theory, that is > it cannot be deduced algorithmically. In my presentation I want to suggest > what the outline of such a non-computational theory might look like: The > central idea is that the outcome of an Orch OR is not determined by an > already existing hidden variable, but by a non computable free choice of the > ontologically independent consciousness essence, the I of the mind, defined > as abstract Ego by John Von Neumann. In the common non-quantum mechanical > view of brain processes the Neural Correlates of Consciousness (NCC) must > somehow encode all details of the sensory and mental experiences that we have > at a given moment, as well as all choices for physical and mental movement > that we make at that time. Similarly the space-time geometry selected in an > Orch OR process must contain the same detailed information of all these > qualia of the total of our experience and choose perspective in the coded > form of space-time curvatures in the substrate in which they are located. > These space-time curvatures arise from the mass distribution in the > biomolecules involved, such as tubulin in microtubules, and can be described > by the respective metric tensor field. We could imagine this coding of qualia > by space-time curvatures, much as meanings are coded for by letters, > sentences, paragraphs. Then all aspects and elements of the total of our > experiences and choices at a certain moment can be considered to be made up > of both elementary and compound Platonic ideas or forms. As a result, the > Platonic ideas are not only limited to mathematical ideas such as point, > line, circle, number or to ideas like beauty, courage, love, etc.,but are > applied very generally and generously to all senses, thoughts, feelings, as > well as to all aspects of choices, decisions, plans, visions. The primitives > of these experiences etc. (e.g. this color green, this sound on the piano, > this artistic feeling), these elementals are used as letters in words to > build up the sentences and paragraphs of the total of our experiences and > choices. Because they together form the space-time geometry selected in an > Orch OR, they must be coded by fundamental space-time geometry letters, > phrases etc. > > > Crazy.
Yes. Bruno > > @philipthrift > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/fd3f86b5-6fdf-432e-abf3-2b0ecc7cfa77o%40googlegroups.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/fd3f86b5-6fdf-432e-abf3-2b0ecc7cfa77o%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/BF7A3BDF-BC43-468D-A2E6-58F124170DAC%40ulb.ac.be.
