On Tuesday, June 11, 2019 at 1:14:32 AM UTC-5, Bruce wrote: > > On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 3:53 PM Bruno Marchal <[email protected] > <javascript:>> wrote: > >> On 10 Jun 2019, at 08:54, Bruce Kellett <[email protected] <javascript:>> >> wrote: >> > > >> On Mon, Jun 10, 2019 at 4:34 PM Philip Thrift <[email protected] >> <javascript:>> wrote: >> >> Retrocausal hidden variable models are completely compatible with >>> experiments, unless QM itself is wrong. >>> >> >> If retrocausality is right, then QM itself is certainly wrong. In the EPR >> situation, the singlet state is rotationally symmetric in standard QM, and >> this cannot be the case if that state is dependent on the future polariser >> settings. Conversely, if QM is right, retrocausality is impossible. >> >> >> If QM with collapse is right, I would understand and agree. That is why >> Deutsch see the “retrocausality” has a semantic variant of the many-worlds >> interpretations, but I have not entirely figure out if this makes sense >> > > It makes no sense at all! Deutsch has gone completely off the rails over > quantum mechanics. He is essentially abandoning the theory as it currently > stands. The argument from symmetry is, to my mind, a total killer of any > retrocausal explanation -- retrocausality must destroy the very symmetry > that is at the heart of the QM predictions for the singlet state, Collapse > and many worlds are all irrelevant to this argument. > > The non-locality of the quantum singlet state is irreducible, and neither > retrocausality nor many worlds has any impact on this central conclusion. > > Bruce > > >> in the Omnes-Griffith-Gelman-Hartle view of the many-worlds. That would >> be nice and eliminate t’hooft’s need of “super-determinism” (mechanism is >> trivially "super-deterministic" in the third person view, but not at all in >> the first person views—that plays a role for free-will/self-determination). >> >> Bruno >> >
"quantum mechanics [is] a theory of quantal histories, without ever needing to call on state-vectors, measurements, or external agents as fundamental notions" Rafael Sorkin https://www.perimeterinstitute.ca/people/rafael-sorkin The whole thing about quantum "states" is just a cult view, like a religion. @philipthrift -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/5b7c3412-57c0-4eae-be82-1ba46a1f5aac%40googlegroups.com.
