On Sunday, February 16, 2014 4:45:13 AM UTC-5, stathisp wrote: > > > > On Sunday, February 16, 2014, Craig Weinberg > <[email protected]<javascript:>> > wrote: > >> >> >> On Saturday, February 15, 2014 10:49:56 PM UTC-5, stathisp wrote: >>> >>> On 16 February 2014 01:32, Craig Weinberg <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> > No, the copy of the experience has no belief or experience at all. The >>> > reflection of the fire doesn't burn anything. >>> >>> Are you saying that the copy will be dead? >> >> >> I'm saying that the copy was never alive to begin with. >> >> >>> A pathologist would examine >>> it and declare that it cannot possibly be dead, everything is normal. >>> It not only looks like Craig, it also has skin, bones, internal >>> organs, blood, the histological structure of the organs is all normal, >>> biochemical analysis is normal, everything is normal. >> >> >> You are assuming that is possible, but it isn't. All you can do is clone >> me, which is no better than a twin brother as far as being a copy. No other >> kind of reproduction will work, any more than a flame could be made out of >> pixels. >> >> >>> If it's all >>> normal by every objective test but it is dead, that would be a >>> miracle. >>> >> >> It won't be normal by every objective test. You keep thinking of a >> zombie, but I am talking about a doll. There are no zombies, just as there >> is no way to turn lead into gold by a chemical transformation. >> > > I'm proposing that all the atoms will be in place, put there by a > futuristic version of a 3D printer. >
I understand, but I am saying that is not possible. Atoms do not literally occupy 'places', it is only impressions of atoms which appear to occupy relative places within a sense modality. If you try to copy a living cell, you won't get an exact copy, you'll just get another living cell (if you're lucky). > Any analysis will then show that this is a normal human with healthy > organs. > It would, in a universe where it was possible to literally copy physical presence, but it is not possible in this universe. Copying is a concept that relies on our failure to detect differences from our perceptual vantage point. There are no actual copies of physical events, and a human lifetime is a single, irreducible physical event (within its own frame of reference). > A pathologist doing an autopsy of a cadaver finds at least some evidence > of tissue damage consistent with death even if the cause of death is > undetermined, but in this case he will find nothing wrong. Are you claiming > that, nonenetheless, the 3D printed copy will be as lifeless as a cadaver? > I doubt that a 3D printed copy of a fully developed body will ever live. A 3D clone of DNA grown in vitro will live, but it will of course have a separate life and be a separate person, just as all identical twins, even brain-conjoined identical twins are separate people. If there were some way to copy a fully developed body so that it lived, it would still not be a copy of the original, but just a new original that reminds us of the copy from the outside perspective. Craig > >> >>> >> Given that a person with a delusion by definition lacks insight into >>> the >>> >> fact that he is deluded, how do you know that you are not a copy? >>> > >>> > >>> > You can't copy awareness. Awareness is what is uncopyable, not just >>> because >>> > awareness is special, but because it is ontologically perpendicular to >>> the >>> > possibility of simulation. All attempts to copy awareness result in a >>> doll. >>> >>> A doll as in dead, or some other kind of doll? >>> >> >> A doll as in never alive - as in a sculpture, an artifice, a facade... >> >> Craig >> >> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Stathis Papaioannou >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> > > > -- > Stathis Papaioannou > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
