On 1/14/2014 9:32 AM, Edgar L. Owen wrote:
Brent,
Again, you are making the mistake of thinking consciousness is some single state that
things either have or don't have. There is actually a continuous non-linear spectrum
from a thermostat through a mars rover through all biological organisms to a human and
possibly beyond. Each of these has an awareness (I call it Xperience) defined strictly
in terms of its actual structure and how that works. All Xperience is simply alteration
of the forms of something in computational interaction with other forms, so properly
speaking every event in the universe is an Xperience so in that sense everything is the
universe has some form of what could be called proto-consciousness.
Where you want to define 'actual consciousness' on this spectrum is pretty much an
arbitrary definition. However it is defined, consciousness is simply the same old
generic Xperience which is fundamental to computational reality. Normally consciousness
is defined to denote some level of self-descriptive Xperience, in the sense that there
are internal computational forms that tell an organism what it is Xperiencing and what
its state is and how it is changing.
So a character in a video game could know things and could even be self conscious -
contrary to your previous dismissal.
Brent
So the answer to your questions is pretty much a matter of how consciousness is defined.
In all cases it's not any soul or ghost in the machine added to a machine, biological or
otherwise, but the operational consequences of the structure of that machine, and its
nature is strictly determined by the operation of those actual structures.
Edgar
On Monday, January 13, 2014 11:09:29 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote:
On 1/13/2014 6:47 PM, Edgar L. Owen wrote:
> Brent,
>
> For God's sakes, the "characters in a video game'" don't know anything.
They are
> completely fictional characters. You seem to have lost all touch with
reality in your
> zeal to find something to criticize. I can't believe we are actually
having this
> discussion... Do you also believe ghosts, trolls and fairies "know
things"?
Do you believe computations can realize beings that know things (it's a
consequence of
your theory if I'm not mistaken). What does it take to "know things"? You
never
answered
my question as to what it would take to make a conscious robot. You evaded
it by
saying
"conscious" wasn't well defined. And I agree that there are levels and
kinds of
consciousness. But choose one or two - what would it take to make a robot
that had
that
kind of consciousness. What would it take for a robot "know things"? Does
the Mars
Rover
know things? anything?
Brent
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