OK, John. I was aware that you took some distance with Rosen "anti-
mechanism". Rosen made good points, but is unaware that the machines
agree with such points. It is related with the fact that the first
person associated to a machine, does not feel at all like being a
machine, nor even anything 3p describable. That is why comp is
necessarily highly counter-intuitive. Not obvious at all, even if the
alternative can be considered as even less obvious.
Bruno
On 10 Jan 2014, at 04:11, John Mikes wrote:
Bruno and Brent,
please do not paint me as a Robert Rosen imitation. I have esteem
for his mind, but tried to go on from SOME of his thoughts in my own
way. He was a mathematician and a biologist, I am none of those.
His untimely death cut his thoughts and I believe there would have
been more to it if he continues and publishes not only what may be
compatible with a reductionist audience, but ventures into
agnosticism himself, beyond his 'model' limited to the presently(?)
knowbles.
At best I am a 'heretic' Rosenite, as I am a 'heretic Marchallite
(if I may say so).
Brent may be right with his "leading nowhere", which may be the
itinery of our present ignorance.
John M
On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 7:19 PM, meekerdb <[email protected]> wrote:
On 1/8/2014 9:29 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
Hi John,
On 07 Jan 2014, at 23:20, John Mikes wrote:
Bruno, you made my day.
Reminds me of a Hungarian humorous author (P. Howard) who wrote
about a blind philosopher (The Sleepy Elephant) and his assistant
living in the deep Sahara - showing the Elephant's Life Oeuvre in
a BIG book, the assistant was supposed to write as the old Blind
Elephant dictated. It was all empty and the assistant asked
somebody to inscribe: "I cannot write, but it makes him so happy
when I pretend..." -
Lol
When reading your remarks I wonder what REALLY mean 'machine',
'comp', 'universal', and some more of your words I got used to
over the past 2 decades, yet are not "clear"(??) enough in my mind
to automatically click-in when used.
Do you have a glossary I could download, to refresh those (brief!)
meanings?
I have no glossary. Maybe I should do that. I use each term in the
most standard sense used by the expert in the field. Computable is
made ultra-standard, if I can say, thanks to the Church thesis.
Let me try an explanation, below, for the notions mentioned above.
(I am aware that you appreciate Robert Rosen critics of Church
Thesis, but as you know I have some reservation that it is really a
critics of Church thesis, as a critic of possible misuse of
Church's thesis).
I'd take Rosen as a cautionary example of holism leading nowhere.
Brent
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