On 9/6/2025 11:20 PM, Alan Grayson wrote:
On Saturday, September 6, 2025 at 5:56:36 PM UTC-6 Brent Meeker wrote:
No. You're over complicating the problem. It's as simple as the
fact that two different thru spacetime are different lengths.
Because the spatial coordinate distance, X, appears with a minus
sign relative to the coordinate time, T, the proper time, S (which
is what a clock measures). So the rocket, which takes the longer
spatial path, experiences less proper time lapse.
*Your solution is essentially no different than the two I explained,
one using GR and other SR. All proposed solutions rely on some
accepted result from relativity theory. AG *
This result has nothing to do with accelerations experience by the
traveler. This a common specious "explanation" trying to connect
it to general relativity.
*Why "specious"? I used an established result in GR to show the
traveling twin is younger when he returns and compares clock readings
with the stationary twin. The fact that you prefer your solution to
mine, doesn't mean using GR is wrong. AG*
This is most easily seen by the triplet version of the paradox.
In this version the one triplet stays home, one travelers away
from Earth, and one who has been far away returns to Earth. When
the outbound triplet passes the inbound triplet he hands off the
time to the inbound one, so together they measure the same path as
the turnaround twin.
*Without acceleration, there can be no comparison of clock readings
when the inbound twin compares his clock readings with stationary twin. *
That's flat wrong.
*And I don't like the handing off of clock readings. AG *
Notice that I have also avoided any acceleration at the beginning
and end, so no triplet ever accelerates.
Brent
*If there's no acceleration, then you've misstated the TP, where both
twins start at rest, juxtaposed so their clocks are synched, and the
traveler leaves and returns at rest to compare clocks. AG *
You may not like it, but it shows the twin paradox has nothing to do
with general relativity or acceleration. It's simply the geometric fact
that some paths are shorter than others. There is no reason to require
that the clocks are set (not synched) equal at rest. I've not
"misstated" anything. You have apparently not understood the twins
paradox.
Brent
On 9/6/2025 8:01 AM, Alan Grayson wrote:
On Saturday, September 6, 2025 at 5:39:18 AM UTC-6 John Clark wrote:
On Sat, Sep 6, 2025 at 1:10 AM Alan Grayson
<[email protected]> wrote:
/> If you recall, you recently posted some links to the
TP and accused me of not reading them. Well, I certainly
intended to read them and I explained why. But then I got
involved in other discussions here and put that
temporarily aside. But now those links are, from my pov,
lost in a myriad of discussion threads. So, please be so
kind as to post them again here. TY, AG/
*Start with this video:*
*I Never Understood How To Intuitively Solve The Twin's
Paradox ... Until Now!*
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3V00tAfcHCI>
*John K Clark See what's on my new list at Extropolis
<https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis>*
I've encountered that fellow before. He speaks too fast, way too
fast. It seems to me that GR solves the problem, and without
frame jumping. Just imagine several changes in velocity, each
spread out, so not instantaneous. During those changes, time for
the traveler slows compared to rest frame on Earth, so when he
returns to meet his twin, he is younger. Do you see anything
wrong with this analysis? AG
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