On Saturday, August 2, 2025 at 1:43:13 PM UTC-6 Alan Grayson wrote:
On Saturday, August 2, 2025 at 1:23:36 PM UTC-6 John Clark wrote: On Sat, Aug 2, 2025 at 2:59 PM Alan Grayson <[email protected]> wrote: *> Right now it appears that all galaxies other than the local group, are receding from us, and they are. The exact same condition could have been operating in the very early universe due to relative spatial motion, placing Earth at the center of the universe. How to prove otherwise? * *Proof? Mathematicians prove things, physicists and astronomers do not. Instead they give ideas various degrees of credence. So it all comes down to one thing, is Earth being the center of the universe an idea you're willing to die on? Very few people are. * Mathematicians, and physicists, have proven many things about, for example, Hilbert spaces. In any event, if the universe ceased expanding, the indication from distant galaxies wouldn't reach us for billions of years. How then can we know these galaxies are receding rapidly NOW from their red shifts? AG *I don't think the Earth is at the center of the universe, which almost certainly has no center (an unproven and perhaps unprovable hypothesis). Nonetheless, I think you fail to get the significance of my comment. IIUC, you claim that the red shift observed in light emitted from distant galaxies, tells us the re ssional rate of those galaxies NOW. But if the expansion were to suddenly cease, so would their red shifts, and we couldn't observe that until billions of years after it occurred, the time required for their light to reach us. That being the case, how is it possible to know their recessional velocity NOW by measuring the red shift observed by light reaching us NOW? AG* *Hubble's Law seems to tell us that galaxies far far away, were receding much more rapidly than they are NOW, which you dispute. You claim they were receding from each other very slowly in very early times. But from a geometric pov, the more remote a galaxy is, that is, at a very early time, the greater is its recessional velocity. So your claim seems inconsistent with the geometric pov, where we can imagine a spherical universe with, for the sake of argument, is uniformly expanding, and the more distant a galaxy is, the more rapid is its recessional velocity. AG * *Maybe Bishop Ussher was right and God created the universe on October 23, 4004 BC, and at the same time He created dinosaur bones and made them look like they were millions of years old to test our faith. Or maybe the universe only came into being 10 minutes ago and all our memories older than that are false memories God created to, you guessed it, test our faith. But scientists don't give either of those theories much credence, and neither do I, however they are no crazier than the Earth being at the center of the universe. * * John K Clark See what's on my new list at Extropoli <https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis>s* ev1 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/37a0a93b-d1df-412c-bc20-eb58c27a7aben%40googlegroups.com.
