On Fri, May 9, 2025 at 9:24 PM Brent Meeker <[email protected]> wrote:
*>>> Are there multiple worlds with zero probabilities?* >> >> > > *>> I can't answer that question until you answer a question of my own. >> Zero probability of what? And if your answer is "of being observed" then my >> next question is "being observed by who?"* > > > No > *No? Neither of the two questions can be answered by a simple yes or no. * *> if you measure a variable A in a world it was just measure to have the > eigenvalue Ao, then MWI says you are in a world with A=Ao with probability > 1.0 Yet you wrote that "Many Worlds says it was in every state that is not > forbidden by Schrodinger's Equation." The system is not forbidden by > Schrodinger's equation to be in other states Ai; it is a contingent fact > that it happened, in this world, to land in state Ao the first time it was > measured. So it has probability zero of being a world where A=Ai. * > *The source of the massive confusion as seen in the above lies, as always, with the misuse of the personal pronoun "you", which is completely ambiguous in this context. Personal pronouns should never be used in thought experiments on this topic, the lack of them may result in a clunky sounding sentence, it would certainly result in very bad poetry, but at least the sentences would make sense. * *Brent Meeker forgets that when Brent Meeker is performing an experiment with an electron if Many Worlds is correct then it is not just the electron that will be in every quantum state that is not forbidden by the laws of quantum mechanics, exactly the same thing could be said about Brent Meeker who is observing and measuring the electron. * > > *> This has nothing to do with being observed or by whom* > *You demand I tell you what the probability is, so I believe it is entirely within my rights to ask "what is the probability of what?" If asked for the probability that Brent Meeker will observe a photon of unknown polarization make it through a polarizing filter I would say 100%, and if asked for the probability that Brent Meeker will observe a photon of unknown polarization NOT make it through a polarizing filter I would also say 100%. But if asked about what "you" would see I would be unable to give a precise answer, I could only say there is a 50-50 chance. * *This lack of precision has nothing to do with the nature of the universe, it has to do with the ambiguity inherent in the personal pronoun "you" that was used in the question. In routine everyday use this ambiguity causes no problems, but it produces havoc when discussing the Many Worlds idea, Star Trek style transporters, uploading, and in general anything involving mind duplication because they are "you" duplicating machines.* *> unless you think consciousness is necessary for measurement.* > *In general consciousness is not involved, Many Worlds says the universe splits whenever there is a change, no matter how small, and consciousness has nothing to do with it. However consciousness is necessary if Mr. You is doing the experiment, and in your hypothetical he was. It makes no sense to say consciousness is not involved when the question asked was to predict what "you" will consciously observe after performing a quantum mechanical experiment.* *John K Clark See what's on my new list at Extropolis <https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis>* 4bk -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAJPayv2hOkaED2u-%3Di2HNRW7t12NEysS6nHdXjdKTmHGR2KwyQ%40mail.gmail.com.
