Michael E Ross said there in not enough copper to electrify what is run by petrol now...
You are aware that electricity distribution does not use any copper? Lines and transformers are all alu and I have not heard of an alu shortage. Only the very last step of low voltage end-user infrastucture (everything beyond the energy company interface, typically everything protected by the final circuit breaker) is copper. So, very little related to EV charging. Now, the EVs themselves still need some copper, slightly more than petrol powered cars as the propulsion motor is larger than the dozens of motors embedded in a petrol car, not to mention the (almost) miles of wiring snaking through every car, petrol or not. I have not done a detailed analysis, but personally I am more bothered by the fact that consumers keep getting lured into ever bigger and complex cars, instead of one that is just enough for their normal use and occasionally renting a better tool for the special cases. Establishing a majority of light vehicles on the road instead of trying to sell everyone the heaviest duty swiss army knife of a vehicle that tries to do everything, ending up twice as heavy and thus unnecessarily doubling resource consumption, would greatly alleviate the pinch in constrained resources. If your car can be built with half the resources, it will have a better economy so can achieve similar range and use less electric power, again reducing the need for some distribution upgrades... Cor. On Sun, Oct 29, 2023, 4:49 PM Michael Ross via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote: > Just because the effort to electrify is not going to be completely > successful doesn't mean I don't want it done. Buying land in Canada might > be a reasonable response compared to trying to green up the whole world. > Going electric world wide will take perhaps 4 times the production of > copper that the earth sustains at this time. It is there, but I don't see > humans getting it together to do it. > > There are all sorts of other elementary inputs that we do not > currently produce at quantities and rates anything near what it will take > to green up enough to make a difference. It is a bad pickle but it is what > it is. > > One mitigating factor is the demographics of the world's population - it > has the population shrinking very significant amounts in the next half > century. > > On Sat, Oct 28, 2023 at 11:17 PM Michael Ross <michael.e.r...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > Considering the needs to maintain the manufacturing of the past decade, > > Europe has essentially none. Germany is burning lignite, for example. > > France has nukes to hold them together. That is about it. Norway? They > > would rather not use petroleum, and make the right moves to avoid it. > Norge > > can't support the rest of the continent. > > > > We have shale tech and I have read there is more than 50 years worth that > > we know about. Yeah, unlimited is hyperbolic, but there is no limit in my > > lifetime. > > > > There isn't enough copper (and so on) to electrify what uses petrol now, > > not in my lifetime. The greatest suppliers we prefer not to use - Russia > in > > particular. There is copper in South America, but mines don't come on > line > > overnight, more like over a decade. > > > > > > On Sat, Oct 28, 2023 at 10:56 PM EV List Lackey via EV < > ev@lists.evdl.org> > > wrote: > > > >> On 28 Oct 2023 at 18:10, Michael Ross via EV wrote: > >> > >> > Europe and North America not comparable where fossil fuels are > >> concerned. > >> > EU has none and we have an unlimited supply. > >> > >> I'm not an expert on this, so correct me if I'm wrong, but I wouldn't > say > >> Europe has none. From what I've read, Norway may not pump as much as > the > >> US, but it's still a significant petroleum and natural gas producer. > >> > >> A few other EU countries, and the UK, contribute smaller amounts. > >> > >> Nor do I think that it's quite fair to say that the US has an unlimited > >> fossil fuel supply. No nation does. The US acts like it does, though. > >> > >> The sincerity is a bit suspect, but Western Europe at least makes > >> concerned > >> noises about reducing carbon emissions. They're trying. New passenger > >> ICEVs are banned from 2035. Already I see more EVs in this tiny rural > >> French town than I ever saw in the medium size Ohio cities around where > I > >> lived. > >> > >> Right now the US is tentatively making carbon-control noises, but their > >> past > >> and their likely future direction is for them to pump it and burn it > >> until > >> it's gone (and we are). > >> > >> David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey > >> > >> To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it. Use my > >> offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt > >> > >> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = > >> > >> Blockchain is an elaborate workaround for a very specific problem: > >> verifying irreversible transfers of value without a centralized > >> authority. In other words, it's a computationally burdensome way to > >> hate the government. > >> > >> -- Sarah Jeong > >> > >> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > >> No other addresses in TO and CC fields > >> HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/ > >> > >> > > > > -- > > Michael E. Ross > > (919) 585-6737 Land > > (919) 901-2805 Cell and Text > > (919) 576-0824 <https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones> Tablet, > > Google Phone and Text > > > > > > > > > > -- > Michael E. Ross > (919) 585-6737 Land > (919) 901-2805 Cell and Text > (919) 576-0824 <https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones> Tablet, > Google Phone and Text > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20231029/f98c6372/attachment.htm > > > _______________________________________________ > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20231029/2d4b9259/attachment.htm> _______________________________________________ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
