As I said before, raising efficiency rather than jamming in a monster battery is a Good Thing. If we can believe the claims for Aptera, in that respect it's on the right track.
I want to see the EPA/WLTP numbers, but I can sort of believe that it could manage 100 wh/mi. The humble 1992 Solectria Force, a well-designed Geo Metro conversion, managed 150 wh/mi, though not on the highway. On 8 Sep 2023 at 0:28, David Heacock via EV wrote: > it is classified as an autocycle which has features such as three > wheels, a steering wheel and the driver is enclosed. Maybe it's just quibbling, but I saw a photo (rendering?) of the interior and I wouldn't call that weird D-shaped thing a steering wheel. Nor would I want to use it. Maybe others would be fine with it. > I would feel much safer driving an Aptera, especially because of the > way the frame and body are made. Maybe you'd *feel* safer, but would you really be? I'm not an engineer, but everything I've read says that it's a challenge to design a stable 3-wheel vehicle. http://www.evdl.org/docs/ev_expo_80_8039_3-wheel_stability.pdf The Corbin Sparrow had some fairly serious stability problems, especially if the battery mass was changed or moved. What has Aptera done for improved stability? > A number of comments have mentioned the limited amount of space inside > the vehicle but there are references to the Aptera having 60% more > storage space than a Honda Accord and 20% more than a Toyota Prius. Now hold on. Are they comparing space behind the seats? To make this fair, they should fold down the back seats in the Accord and Prius so they're also 2-seat cars. I don't know how they'd fare that way, but I can tell you that Aptera's specs claim 32.5 cu ft of cargo space - 920 liters. If we make our Renault Zoe into a 2-seater, we have 1,225 liters of cargo space - about 1/3 more. And that's in a smaller exterior than the Aptera's. The Aptera is 455cm long and 223cm wide. That strikes me as an awfully big footprint for a 2- seat car. It's wider than a Tesla Model 3, which is classified as a large car in Europe. Thus there are places an Aptera can't go. For example, it's 3cm too wide to fit through the alley leading to my garage. > I think the more reasonable consideration would not be the storage > space, but the fact that it is a two seater. I agree. That makes it a specialty vehicle and limits its sales potential. Ask Honda why they dropped the CRX, and why they turned the Insight into a bland 5-seat family car. > when you consider a lot of people commute to work alone this might > make a great second vehicle And not so good for taking the kids out for ice cream or picking up a couple of friends at the airport. I'm thinking 3rd or 4th vehicle, not second, but that's me. > A lot of discussion about how practical solar is for the Aptera ... Most of it here has had to do with PV efficiency and square area. Thing is, without tracking, it will only hit peak power at noon, and only in the summer. Winter will cut the energy harvest. So will a cloudy place like Seattle. Tall city buildings will shade it. You can't put it in the garage and still solar-charge it. What will it cost to replace the PV if it's in a wreck? Someone mentioned vandalism, and I don't think you can dismiss that as the coal-rolling crowd cranks up the violence. Both of these lead to higher insurance costs. What I'm driving at: I can't think of a case where it doesn't make more sense to put PV on your roof instead of on your car. > As far as a market for this vehicle, Aptera thinks there may be a > market of 600,000 vehicles per year Sorry, that's an investor pitch, not a realistic sales estimate. A Mazda Miata is also a 2-seater. Its base price is pretty close - about $28,000. Last year Mazda moved 10,547. In its best year, 1990, Mazda sold just under 36,000 Miatas. So, 600,000 Apteras per year? I don't think so. Maybe 6,000 if they're lucky. > From my perspective new EV startups have often failed not because of > lack of demand but because of lack of supply and the money to make the > vehicles. I'd be interested in hearing where you saw that. I've been watching the EV world since 1967, and the many failures I've seen have involved lack of demand. There just weren't a lot of buyers lining up for a EV that did less than an equivalent ICEV, but cost more. Sure the EV is cleaner, but very few people care. Don't forget the competition. The Aptera price is actually pretty good, if they can stick to it, but at least in Europe, there are several more conventional EVs in a similar price class. They may have less range, but they're more flexible. Cheap and cheerful Chinese EVs are another looming threat. So is Tesla's long-promised $25k EV, if it ever actually materializes. I think Aptera has a good basic idea. It probably does more with it than others have in the past. It wouldn't work for me, but that doesn't mean it won't work for anyone. I just don't know who or how. Do they? Do you? David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it. Use my offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Hypothetical median income of full-time US workers if income were distributed as evenly as it was in 1975: $92,000 Actual median income of full-time US workers: $50,000 -- Harper's Index, December 2020 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = _______________________________________________ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
