Hi Darryl,

Thanks for your comments.

To say that I’m thrilled about the amount of renewable and zero emission 
integration in Ontario would be a gross understatement. I grew up not far from 
Ontario and spent great summers exploring northern Ontario wilderness.

I know that part of the solution there is the use of hydrogen energy storage to 
reduce the amount of renewables that get wasted through curtailment.

As you can imagine, though, California is a very different place, with its own 
set of challenges, particularly since 40%+ of imported goods to the U.S. make 
their way through our ports.

And our grid is very diverse, with many renewables just having come online over 
the last several years. And it will take a lot to get us to 100% renewables. 
Just a few years ago, it was about 29%, while hydrogen for transportation fuels 
was mandated at 33% (a law I supported), making hydrogen the ONLY 
transportation fuel with such a requirement. But the industry quickly beat that 
requirement and beat the grid, with 44% of transportation hydrogen being 
renewable. 

(And you are right, this thread is not the place to debate the merits of 
hydrogen)

Sorry if I don’t read your book, but the issues - potential, real, imagined or 
fabricated - are known to me and the industry. And with a publication date of 
2006, before the time when I personally began to be involved with hydrogen in a 
great way, it is badly out of date.

What has changed? Virtually everything - with onboard storage capacity perhaps 
being the LEAST of the changes. Since then, costs have significantly dropped, 
power densities have increased, performance increased, and so on.

My own Honda Clarity has all the power train components now fitting in the 
engine compartment - a first. And we haven’t even gotten to the progress in 
fueling technology and standards.

And every iteration improves on everything in a significant way.

- Mark

Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone

> On Dec 28, 2018, at 8:10 AM, Darryl McMahon via EV <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> Hello Mark and all,
> 
> as expected, I'm tardy with a response, and I see the discussion has moved 
> on, and as already noted, shows why hydrogen is typically OT for this list.
> 
> I'm not prepared to debate the merits of hydrogen as a fuel or energy store 
> here.  I had those debates from the late 1990s to 2006.  My stance now is you 
> have to read my book to continue the discussion, because the issues with 
> hydrogen are many, and you have to solve all of them to have a valid 
> contender.
> 
> To your specific points in your last post.
> 
> We have made incredible advances in greening the grid, and I have been an 
> active participant in that.  I charge EVs primarily in Ontario and Quebec.
> 
> Quebec has zero coal, zero natural gas generation and a trivial amount of 
> diesel generation for communities not connected to the North American 
> continental grid.  The bulk of their generation comes from big hydro, 
> although small hydro, wind and PV are growing from a small foothold.
> 
> All in all, over 99% electricity generation from renewables.  Not by 2045.  
> Today.
> 
> Ontario has made significant strides in the past decade, in no small part due 
> to the efforts of the Ontario Clean Air Alliance.  Ontario generation has 
> zero coal, 4% natural gas (shrinking), a serious amount of large hydro, and 
> growing amounts of wind and PV.
> 
> We're not done yet.  We are seriously over-invested in nuclear and continuing 
> down that wrong path.  Our new government is in favour of dinosaur generation 
> sources, and cancelled over 750 signed renewables contracts in their first 
> month in office (breach of contract lawsuits to follow) and our EV purchase 
> incentive program.  Shutting down all coal-fired generation in Ontario is the 
> single largest greenhouse gas emissions reduction project in North America to 
> date.
> 
> All in all, less than 4% generation from fossil carbon sources (natural gas 
> and diesel generation in remote communities).  Still, we aren't finished yet. 
>  Storage projects are continuing to be built to displace the need for the gas 
> peaker plants.  Old small hydro plants are being upgraded.  Remote 
> communities are being connected to the grid to eliminate the need for diesel 
> generation.
> 
> We have also made incredible progress in making battery electric vehicles, 
> especially the battery technology, sufficient for most driving needs, 
> reliable and affordable.  There is excitement in that field and no indication 
> the cost and storage capacity trends are going to change anytime soon.  We 
> are also making substantial strides in provisioning a charging network 
> throughout the industrialized and industrializing world to support 
> away-from-base charging, to extend the utility of battery EVs in every day 
> missions.  And we're working on how to continue in those directions while 
> supporting, not threatening, electrical utilities and grid reliability.
> 
> As for my sources on hydrogen technology, they include hydrogen proponents, 
> scientists, engineers, journals in multiple fields, and various news media.  
> The hydrogen skeptics don't bother poking me.  And for clarity, regarding 
> hydrogen, I did not say nothing has changed, I said things have not changed 
> much on the technology side other than increasing on-board storage.
> 
> Darryl McMahon (driving electric since 1978)
> 
> 
>> On 12/27/2018 11:02 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2018 20:32:43 -0800
>> From: Mark Abramowitz<[email protected]>
>> To:[email protected], Electric Vehicle Discussion List
>>    <[email protected]>
>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] OT: Keeping hydrogen for transportation ?cleaner?
>> Message-ID:<[email protected]>
>> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=utf-8
>> We?ve made incredible progress over just the last few years in greening the 
>> grid.
>> By 2045, it should be 100% renewable. By 2030, transportation hydrogen 
>> should be 100% renewable.
>> (BTW, if you think that nothing else has changed in hydrogen technology in 
>> the last several years, there is something wrong with your sources)
>> - Mark
>> Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
> 
> -- 
> Darryl McMahon
> Freelance Project Manager (sustainable systems)
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